dark light

Teer

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 976 through 990 (of 1,980 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346340
    Teer
    Participant

    More on the EWS system.

    http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/1/9/5/0/47206_1286884059.jpg

    See the fin & the gray colored rectangle.

    http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories795.htm

    A prototype EWS has been integrated with MiG-27 fighter for test flights,”

    The Chitradurga aeronautical test range, which will come up by 2012 at the DRDO’s 4,000-acre campus in the state, about 200 km from Bangalore, will be used for communication-based EWS and the Tandur range will be used for non-communication EWS.

    “The testing centres will be operational by 2012. As per the plan, EWS will be integrated with MiG-29, Jaguar, Sukhoi-MKI-30 of the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas by 2011,” Prahlada told about 300 delegates.

    “Our goal is to develop the fourth-generation EWS by 2012

    The fourth-generation EWS is being developed by the state-run Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and Defence Electronics Research Laboratory (DERL).

    Once the air version of EWS is integrated and operational, the naval and army versions will be developed simultaneously.

    The “third generation” EWS to being fitted currently has DRFM, can jam multiple threats & has multiple transmit/receive apertures. It combines both radar warning & jamming features and is being standardized across the IAF fleet.

    Apart from the upgraded Mirage 2000’s & MMRCAs which will come with an OEM specific suite, every other IAF aircraft will be using the DRDO’s radar warning and jamming suite.

    This will replace the earlier ELTA EL/L 8222 Self Protection Jammer which was hitherto the standard countermeasure system for IAF aircraft & will continue to be in service on aircraft such as the MiG-21 Bison. The new EWS is several times more capable than the ELTA pod.

    With the airframe integrated systems though, more pods should be available for extra support as required.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346427
    Teer
    Participant

    Shilka upgrade

    India has 90 Shilkas, all being upgraded by BEL & probably BDL India, with 48 in Phase 1. First due next year.

    Indian Army To Receive Upgraded Schilka Tanks Next Year

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/06/awx_12_06_2010_p0-274278.xml&headline=Indian%20Army%20To%20Receive%20Upgraded%20Schilka%20Tanks%20Next%20Year

    Upgrade features:
    1.3D phased array radar
    2.New engine (diesel engines replacing the original plus the APU. The reported engine change with 1/10th the earlier fuel consumption – probably refers to replacement of the APU gas turbine by a diesel one)
    3.Thermal imaging
    4.State-of-the-art electronics suite
    5.Air-conditioning

    More pictures and details of the upgrade, including interiors
    http://defense-update.com/products/z/zsu23-4.htm

    The modernized vehicle was displayed at Aero India, installed with a new 359 BHP Caterpillar main diesel engine and auxiliary power unit delivering 51 BHP, a pedestal mounted radar, thermal imager, daylight TV and laser rangefinder enabling the vehicle to operate in passive or ’emitting’ search mode.

    The system will be capable of receiving target cueing from remote sensors, such as air surveillance radar. The new system has an option to integrate missile systems in the future.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346430
    Teer
    Participant

    BEML Sets Sights On Aircraft Assembly

    The monopoly of Indian military aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) may be seriously challenged…

    …………..

    “When you are already in [the] aerospace business, you can’t keep aircraft manufacturing out of your radar,” BEML Chairman and Managing Director V.R.S. Natarajan said during Aviation Week’s visit to its Palakkad facility. “It’s not immediate, but we are heading in that direction. Plans are afoot and maybe by [the] 2015-17 period, we would have already begun the work.”

    The company previously worked alongside HAL on several projects, providing landing gear for the Dhruv, Chetak and Cheetah helicopters, Natarajan says.

    BEML already is supplying slat jigs for the Sukhoi and fuselage-rotating jigs for the Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT). It has received certification from India’s Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification.

    “While it is good to have more players in aerospace in India, one must not forget the fact that HAL built its capabilities over a span of 70 years,” a source says.
    ……
    The investment in aerospace is huge with uncompromising quality standards.”

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/09/awx_12_09_2010_p0-275366.xml&headline=BEML%20Sets%20Sights%20On%20Aircraft%20Assembly

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346432
    Teer
    Participant

    Tejas to reach IOC

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_tejas-from-a-flying-machine-to-fighter-aircraft_1481800

    Tejas: From a flying machine to fighter aircraft

    A quest which started in 2001 is about to end: Tejas, India’s indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA), completed its final lap to transform into a full-fledged combat aircraft—in Bangalore on Wednesday.

    After its first flight on January 4, 2001, Tejas had successfully completed 1,452 test flights, with the last one here, where it undertook air-to-ground weapon and drop tank jettison trials. Now, it is awaiting an Initial Operational Clearance (IOC)—which is likely to be given on December 27.

    Tejas Bomb Trials

    http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2010/12/breaking-on-tarmak007-tejas-stores.html

    IMAGES:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/TQixH8uHRTI/AAAAAAAAC6c/GcLcgOM_5WU/s1600/Picture+2.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/TQixJLcr5kI/AAAAAAAAC6g/swAfRQoli-I/s1600/Picture+3.jpg

    The Chitradurga range became activated today with the bomb dropping trails from LCA Tejas.

    Other than LCA tests, this facility will also be used for various tests of UAV flights and electronic warfare systems in the days to come.
    Shri PS Subramanyam, Programme Director (CA) & Director, ADA said that on December 15, 2010, Tejas PV-2 aircraft piloted by Gp Capt (Retd) RR Tyagi dropped practice bombs on the target.

    http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/12/tejas-clears-low-level-flight-test.html

    Tejas Clears All Low-level Flight Test Points

    Word just in that the LCA Tejas has completed all test points for low-level flight off the coast of Goa towards initial operational clearance. The first flight of the LCA Navy is expected soon. More details when they’re in.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346436
    Teer
    Participant

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/14/awx_12_14_2010_p0-276788.xml

    India’s largest defense manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), is in talks with the U.K.’s BAE Systems on various projects related to Hawk Advanced Jet Trainers.

    ….

    Possible future projects include establishing a maintenance, repair and overhaul base for Hawks worldwide, building a worldwide supply chain and making India the center for exporting the Hawk in the long term, Aviation Week has learned.

    …..

    In February 2003, India signed a $1.7-billion contract with BAE to supply 66 Hawk trainer jets. In July, the company was awarded a $780-million contract for 57 Hawks, 17 of which are for the Indian navy and the rest for the Indian air force.

    …..

    “We have given a permanent license to HAL to build the Hawk,” says Andrew Gallagher, managing director and CEO of BAE Systems India.

    http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4896

    Rosoboronexport to Begin Mi-17-V5 Helicopter Deliveries in March 2011

    A contract for the procurement of 80 Mi 17-V5 helicopters along with spares and the associated equipment was signed between Ministry of Defence and M/s Rosoboronexport, Russia on 5th December 2008 at a cost of US $ 1,345,836,495.83.

    The Mi-17-V5 helicopters will be utilized for Special Heliborne Operations, air-maintenance, transportation of troops and equipment, search and rescue, casualty evacuation and in armed helicopter roles. The delivery of these helicopters is likely to commence by March 2011.

    Quoted in full as it is a Govt. of India release.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346438
    Teer
    Participant

    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2010/101216ae_c130j-india-first-delivery.html

    Touch The Sky With Glory

    MARIETTA, Ga., December 16th, 2010 — At ceremonies today here, Lockheed Martin [NYSE:LMT] delivered the first of six C-130Js for the Indian Air Force. The new fleet was ordered under a U.S. Foreign Military Sale (India’s first) in late 2008. “There are few mottos that impart such passion as that of the Indian Air Force, which is ‘Touch the Sky With Glory’,” said Lorraine Martin, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for C-130 Programs, during today’s ceremony. “Today begins a new glorious, enduring partnership with India as the fourth largest air force in the world proudly joins the worldwide C-130 family.”

    http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20101215-252920.html

    RSAF & Indian Air Force collaborate
    Wed, Dec 15, 2010
    AsiaOne

    The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) and the Indian Air Force (IAF) are in the midst of a Joint Military Training (JMT) at Kalaikunda Air Force Station, India.

    The RSAF’s F-16C/D fighter aircraft, RBS-70 fire unit and PSTAR radar have been deployed to train with the IAF’s MiG-27 squadron from Dec 2 to 16, 2010.

    JMT 2010 is conducted under the Bilateral Agreement for the Conduct of Joint Military Training and Exercises in India between the RSAF and the IAF, which was established in October 2007.

    PSTAR radar
    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/7333.pdf

    Interesting – similar to India’s own new Light weight radar from DRDO, the Aslesha, which is being procured by the IAF. Aslesha has around 1.7 times the range though at 50 Km for a similar sized target and is intended for quick deployment as well.

    Aslesha:
    http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/561/dsc02357kg1.jpg
    http://www.bel-india.com/index.aspx?q=&sectionid=441
    Wiki: Aslesha 3D Low Level Light Weight Radar: 50 km, ranged, light weight semi active radar developed for the IAF, for mountainous terrain. 20 being delivered to the IAF.

    An Indian “neighbour” operates the RBS-70, so its useful for the IAF strike MiG-27s to see the system first hand & its pros and cons. Ditto for the F-16 C/D.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346441
    Teer
    Participant

    IMO the chances for IAF being interested in the F-35 were very slim, which is why Lockheed has not hard sold it to them. They have just done a bit & the IN is a better probable customer for the follow on Aircraft carriers.

    The IAF currently has plans for 250-300 FGFAs & will take around 150-200 AMCAs. Given that, there is less room for a JSF. If the IAF would have had place or indicated a need for another 5G type, Lockheed & the USG would have stepped up, why not secure an additional customer early.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2346495
    Teer
    Participant

    India Orders Six More Squadrons Of Akash Missile Systems

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/16/awx_12_16_2010_p0-277791.xml&headline=India%20Orders%20Six%20More%20Squadrons%20Of%20Akash%20Missile%20Systems

    The Indian Air Force (IAF) has placed orders for six more squadrons of Akash Missile Systems (AMS) worth Rs 5,000 crore ($1.1 billion).
    ………

    The Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) confirmed to Aviation Week Dec. 16 that the additional orders have come as a huge boost to India’s indigenous military program.

    BEL is expected to complete these additional orders in the next 3-5 years, while the first AMS squadron will be delivered to the IAF within a month to be positioned at Gwalior Air Base.

    This past June, India’s Defense Acquisition Council cleared the army version of AMS, worth Rs 12,500 crore ($2.78 billion).

    Somebody cross post this in missiles thread.

    DRDO To Establish Nanotechnology Foundry

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/16/awx_12_16_2010_p0-277765.xml&headline=DRDO%20To%20Establish%20Nanotechnology%20Foundry

    India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) has unveiled a road map to tap the immense potential of nanotechnology, including a Rs 600 crore ($133.3 million) nano foundry to be established in either Bangalore or Hyderabad, in partnership with the country’s premier academic institutions.

    India already has a Rs 1,500 crore ($333 million) national program for nanotechnology, launched through various science and technology centers.

    “The foundry will help the fabrications of products that are coming out of DRDO labs, in mass scale.”

    Close to 20 DRDO labs are working on various nano applications, and Selvamurthi says that concrete results should begin emerging in about a year. “Nanotechnology has immense reach and DRDO is looking at its applications in materials, electronics, camouflage use, life-saving drugs, missile structures, stealth features, microwave tubes, batteries and surface coatings,” he says.

    HAL, Russia To Sign Design Contract For Fifth-Gen Fighter
    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/16/awx_12_16_2010_p0-277762.xml&headline=HAL,%20Russia%20To%20Sign%20Design%20Contract%20For%20Fifth-Gen%20Fighter

    in reply to: RAF – Further reductions #2347924
    Teer
    Participant

    Good scenario: The Coalition cuts a deal for power sharing with the Talibans.

    And what happens to all the Afghans who face the Taliban brutality, like that kid who got her nose chopped off? Throwing the Afghan people to the wolves surely is not a good scenario.

    in reply to: Pakistan Air Force III #2347942
    Teer
    Participant

    Ahem.

    Getting back on topic, the Denel-Mechtron MAA-1B Piranha is being sold to Pakistan with the MAA-1As already in country. How capable are these missiles? There seems so little data about them.

    Theres a pretty good page here:
    http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~otranto/fab/missil_piranha.htm

    in reply to: Pakistan Air Force III #2348017
    Teer
    Participant

    And nothing to show for that $22 billion. LCA: Fail, Arjun: Fail, Nag: Fail, Saras: Fail, Trishul Fail, Marut: Fail, Project Indigo SAM: Fail, Project Devil SAM: Fail, Kaveri: Fail, Airawat: Fail, Dhruv: Semi Fail, Sitara: Semi Fail; Deepak: Semi Fail; INSAS: Semi Fail and many more that I don’t even remember.

    Those $22 Billion refer to actual orders for successful programs in series production for the most part. So actually, your list above is pretty rubbish.

    The reality for even the list you generated is quite different to your claims..

    LCA – active program, 40 ordered, indent for ~150 more aircraft
    Saras – likewise, with program continuing flight trials, now India is going ahead with programs for more airliners
    Arjun – Beat the T-90 in trials, 248 ordered & more being charted
    Marut- was produced, saw action against Pak
    Project Devil – dude, it speaks volumes that you have to again reach back all the way to the 1960s? The current SAM project, the Akash, has a multi-billion$ orderbook & a MK-2 version already in development
    Kaveri – still continuing, with trials of the MK1 version just completed in Russia & a JV with Safran on the books
    Airavat- superceded by the AEW&C program (3 on order, another ~3-6 on indent)
    Dhruv – with an orderbook of 150+ choppers & exports & derivatives (LCH at ~70) being ordered as well.

    Nag – 443 Missiles ordered initially with trials thoroughly successful and new Recce & Support units set up for this missile
    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/03/army-opts-for-nag-missile-as-it-enters.html

    Sitara – currently in flight trials & sixty plus already on indent for the IAF
    INSAS – around a million produced last I remember & now being superceded by the next generation of rifles…

    Of the entire list, only the Trishul was cancelled & failed to see service, thanks to program failure in its anti sea skimming missile mode.

    And even that program has now been supplanted with the SRSAM program with MBDA where India will supply the radars & C3I & leveraged tech from the Trishul program & MBDA chips in with seekers etc.

    Not to mention about all the items that you incidentally forgot which make up that $22 Billion orderbook.

    1. Radars & sonars – India has ordered over a thousand radars of its own design, its naval ships use its own sonars, its currently making AESA radars with MMICs of its own design

    2. EW – Indian Naval, land and airborne units all use Indian EW suites. Naval systems are in Gen 4, ditto for airborne systems. Army has ordered series production of a full tactical EW system for Comint, Sigint and jamming & has now asked for follow on variants

    3. Communications ditto – with BEL to display its latest software defined radios in the coming year, a multitude of other radios, relays in service & in production

    The interesting thing is Pakistan has no equivalents of any of the above of its own make.

    In this day & age, Aselsan (Turkey) is making radars, but Pak., is yet to field any of its own design, let alone basic EW of even a basic type. In India, I can count at least some 3-4 large public & private firms who can design, system integrate & even manufacture such items.

    Brazil is now supplying missiles & systems to Pak, when Pak with its own long history of missile development should have been the one with a more matured industry. You guys spent 415 Million Euros on Aspide & have to go back to the OEM for support, for upgrades.

    What the above should tell you, especially programs like the Kaveri, is that India is persistent.

    It does not give up on its strategic objectives, as hard or as troubled as the path may be.

    Incidentally, China is fairly similar. Despite umpteen J series programs facing problems, they kept at it. Their Type-XX series tanks were dismissed as knockoffs of Russian tanks, today, they are exporting them to Pak, other nations & are continuing to mature them.

    Similarly, India too tends to go for the long haul. Unless Pakistan does likewise, you’ll be continually dependent on external sources of armaments & your current defence spending will become more & more unsustainable, even beyond current limits.

    As far as Pakistan is concerned we have never flaunted our research capabilities. We want operational systems at optimal cost. I.e. best bang for the buck.

    Sure, we’ll take your word for it. Never mind, that the current system shows missing capabilities across the board.

    1. Where are Pakistans F&F ATGMs of its own design? Currently, Pak employs TOW2, Bakhtar Shikan (Norinco Red Arrow) both SACLOS systems. This shows Pakistan will have to start afresh to field compact, F&F munitions

    2. Or its tactical SAM systems developed inhouse? None – PAF purchased Aspide from Italy at great cost, which is but an Akash equivalent in range, and is now scouting for limited numbers of PRC advanced SAMs, while India is building its own. Pak will continue to be reliant on systems imported from abroad, which are rising in cost & complexity

    3. Where are its EW programs developed locally? None – US initially denied DRFM based jammers for the PAF Vipers, whereas India is fielding DRFM jammers of its own design on the MiG-27, LCA, MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI. Pak’s most critical tactical capability is completely in the hands of external suppliers from France & China

    4. Where are its avionics programs? Pakistan had to approach France for its avionics suite for its JF-17 license manufacture, whereas India is customizing its imports with local avionics. Again, that much foreign exchange & taxpayer money going abroad, with license production restricted to limited build to print

    5. Where are Pakistans own radars? India purchased some 100 odd radars for its AF & Army from local sources, sparing that many imports & has more advanced AESA variants in testing. Pak., imports limited numbers of Chinese & American systems, continues to look abroad, and no offsets are even mentioned – as in EW, a critical capability entirely sourced from abroad, the US & China

    6. Where are Pakistans own trainers & helicopters? Pak is requesting the US to provide a handful of helicopters to deal with insurgents & dependent on the PRC for jet trainers

    7. Why is the world not beating the door down to approach Pakistan for JVs in transports or aircraft, if Pakistan indeed had substantial aeronautical capabilities on offer, vis “optimal cost”?

    I mean, its pretty easy not to attempt programs as ambitious as your apparently hated adversary (judging by your posts) & then dismiss everything that the opponent as a failure. But its just trying to kid yourself as over time, the problems will add up.

    From your own comments so far, you tout the diversion of US aid as having paid for the AEW&C, and that Saudi Arabian support allowed Pakistan to go ahead with nuke tests. You robbed Peter (your economy) to pay Paul (your military).

    If Pakistan had a strong economy & a robust military R&D infrastructure, it would not have to depend as much as you say it does, on other nations to defend its own sovereign actions.

    Now, Pakistan so far, through the early 90’s et al, managed to keep apace of basic bread & butter requirements by undertaking license production & customization. H&K MP5s, to tanks, APCs etc & license manufacturing basic ATGMs (Norinco Red Arrows) but that is the time India was working on maturing its domestic infrastructure to the next level.

    Now, the results are fairly obvious & unless Pakistan invests heavily in doing likewise in at least niche capabilities, the gap will only widen, as dependence on PRC can only go so far (they want cash after all) & US aid will not last forever.

    I find it amazing that your strategy still consists of trying to hold a deterrent effect vis a vis expensive imports & diversion of aid, when your actual economy is still suffering & unless supported extensively will not be able to sustain your current levels of expenditure.

    If this is your strategy, you are basically doing India’s planners work for them. Starving your economy, while importing expensive items & not working on anything equivalent locally for fear of failure & then having to keep pace with your own self declared rival, which has a much larger economy & is both building its own kit & importing as it requires.

    in reply to: Pakistan Air Force III #2348250
    Teer
    Participant

    Teer,

    Do realise how idiotic you are sounding.

    Look at yourself in the mirror & the reaction you elicit & then think of what you come across as.

    I have playing with you from the start and you have taken it hook line and sinker.

    I was just pointing out how untenable your propaganda was vis a vis the actual facts. Glad to see you admitting that you were trolling & just posting made up stuff.

    Every thing you say from LCA to Airawat is wrong and there is enough evidence on the net, from Indian official sources to prove you wrong.

    Sure – just like how the Middle Eastern royal families are protected by umpteen Pak SF, because the former are so incompetent & the much vaunted Urdu media says so. Enough, please. The first thing to determine which are valid sources & then proceed, not accept them because they merely say what one likes to hear.

    As far as Saudi Arabia’s “balanced” relationshp with India is concerned it was Saudi Arabia who really neutralised India’s effort to dominate the region by supporting Pakistan to go nuclear after Indian nuclear explosions.

    Sure, and I presume this too is because “you know how Saudis operate”. Whats interesting is how deeply you identify with the Saudis, going so far as to grant them even this feat. & that Pak. had to be supported to go nuclear and it wasnt its own decision to make.

    Just backs up what I had mentioned about how some Pakistanis tend to be pretty fixated on how close KSA is to Pak. and look towards it as it being in their camp, even though from what we’ve seen so far, the KSA is not beholden to Pak. and pursues its national interests pretty openly.

    As far as your technology is concerned, evey time a project fails it becomes a technology demonstrator and your miilitary goes of to buy stuff off the shelf from other countries.

    Clearly, you have a pretty limited understanding of the military R&D process. The tech demo phase comes before LSP, which is then followed by production. Only after each gateway is cleared, is the next stage progressed.

    Even if what you said was correct, which it is not, its still a huge sight better than not attempting to make things on your own & merely importing them throughout.

    And as far as India’s technology is concerned, its doing fairly ok for itself. So far production orders for Indian R&D designed & manufactured items stand at Rs 100,000 Crore or $22 Billion. This apart from the separate inhouse projects pursued in defence public & private sector units, which have their own R&D setup, which would have a cumulative value easily equal or greater than this. This huge orderbook has also translated into the creation of an industrial base, which can also pick up offset orders tied to imports.

    If Pakistan wants to truly build a local D&D capability, one day or the other, it will have to bite the bullet and take the hard path.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force- News & D iscussion #15 #2348607
    Teer
    Participant

    I thought that was DARIN II.

    Its 3, it has 3 mfds versus 2 on darin2 & a radar versus laser range finder on darin-2

    in reply to: Indian Space/Missile News/Discussion – III #1799928
    Teer
    Participant

    Intersting reading…

    http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/india/india-missile-helpers.html

    http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/articles/1989/indiasmissiles-dodging.htm

    http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/india/

    The first link merely details infrastructure which has been shared with India, but by the same standards, US factories use Japanese calibration instruments & Asia built chips & gizmos sourced from Europe. Does that make their systems non American? Hardly.

    And more importantly, the link is flawed because it conflates civilian development with military development. In India, both programs are strictly firewalled, and production of systems & technologies does not flow with such ease as the author claims.

    The third link is just a litany.

    So lets come to the second link which is Gary Milhollins famous but flawed treatise on India, where he simply took whatever India had done with ISRO and extended that to India’s strategic program.

    In reality, these two programs were run by different agencies, and firewalled. Technology transfer between the two was limited & even people who wanted to work on strategic programs had to resign from ISRO and join DRDO.

    Even today, DRDO is setting up an alternate satellite facility vis a vis having civilian ISRO do it.
    http://www.indian-military.org/news-archives/57-others/1150-drdo-wary-despite-obamas-entity-list-announcement.html

    Despite Obama’s call, India’s defence and space establishments continue to work under the shadow of sanctions, separating civil from military so that a ban on one would not affect the other. The strategic missile programme, under the DRDO, was long ago separated from ISRO’s space rocket programme even though they deal in broadly similar technologies. And Business Standard learned that, in the run-up to Obama’s visit, the DRDO also firewalled its planned military satellite programme from ISRO’s civil satellite development and launch programme, which could soon be a global leader in commercial launches. This was to ensure that the US could not proscribe ISRO by accusing it of involvement in the militarization of space.

    Now, the Milhollin article has so many loopholes in it based on either flawed data or selective interpretation, that i don’t have the time to go para by para, but I’ll take up one instance, to demonstrate how dubious the article can be. Milhollin notes:

    India has not described the Agni guidance system. But when the missile was assembled in 1988, Indian rocket scientists had studied and developed only one brain for rocket guidance: the German system based on the Motorola microprocessor and its software. Over a decade, Germany’s guidance tutorial helped India build and test a navigation package based on that system. Did that system go into the Agni, or did India invent from scratch some other system, not mentioned in any Indian space program report? If the latter, did the Indian rocket scientists block from their minds everything they had learned from the Germans? The evidence is strong that the Agni owes its brain to German engineering.

    So he says India a) had only build one navigation package before and that too the ISRO one, which was derived from German tech & b) the same was employed for Agni.

    Let us see what the public, printed copy of “Missile Overview – experiences” printed circa 1995 says about this, sticking to the salient points,

    “The work on Inertial Navigation in DRDL started in 1970….we worked to build our first 3 gimballed INS with Gyros and accelerometers…we started to make it ruggedized,and made it workable in the field. Trial was a closed circuit flight for an hour, performance was about 3 nm/hr class, using then known signal processing.”

    “we built a much more complex, but less reliable 4 gimbal system which we tested using the Canberra bomber”

    “then we built the first strap down INS in India, and used it on the D missile and we learnt a lot of things and decided to work on the next ruggedized INS for missile applications”

    “we then built a strap down INS with a weight of 50+ kgs using new algorithms and computational hardware. This was then used for our strategic missile programs”

    So much for Milhollin’s claims that India had no INS programs before the German one, and the Germans transferred technology to ISRO which was used in missiles, when the Indian INS program run by DRDL was entirely separate & predated the German program by many years, it started in 1970 versus the German cooperation with ISRO which went on from 1982 per Milhollin.

    BTW, the Indian INS for series built missiles, unlike what Milhollin says, did not even use a Motorola 6800 processor but an entirely different one & shows the firewall between the civilian side of things & the military establishment.

    Today, India even builds RLG-INS of its own design.
    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/10/13/awx_10_13_2010_p0-261153.xml

    Satheesh Reddy, director of navigation systems at the Research Center Imarat (RCI), claims that India can now rub shoulders with the best in the business of making missiles. The denial of technology stemming from MTCR also forced the lab to find indigenous ways to develop systems in the areas of fiber optic gyroscopes (control grade and inertial grade) for missile, tanks and aircraft, ring laser gyroscopes for long-range and long-endurance missiles and flight vehicles. The lab also produces high-accuracy accelerometers to meet the accuracy requirements of long-range missiles.

    With a major thrust by India’s Defense Minister A.K. Antony for indigenous products, RCI has become the Indian Defense Research and Development Organization’s flag-bearer in state-of-the-art systems and subsystems for missile programs. The primary focus of the lab was to support various missions by providing systems like inertial navigation systems (INS), Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Global Navigation Satellite System (Glonass) receivers. Today, the technology know-how has given confidence to RCI to support different missions with varied requirements of DRDO and users. Having mastered the art of precision hits – the sole objective of any missile program – RCI has graduated to providing navigational support to Tejas, Su-30MKI and Jaguar. The lab is also supporting the Indian Navy for other so-called smart upgrades.

    RCI’s Navigation System unit is focussing on the development of built-in redundant systems with highly-accurate sensors and single-chip navigation solutions. “The lab has been playing a silent role in contributing to DRDO’s sensitive programs, which at this point we wouldn’t want to talk about,” says one lab official.

    in reply to: Indian Space/Missile News/Discussion – III #1799930
    Teer
    Participant

    Its a Russian seeker, where did you find that it has Indian software?

    Or may be I am innocent….

    Via the developers at open events (nothing secret about it). The Brahmos has currently developed from Block-1, to Block 2 & now Block 3+, India worked with the Russians in developing the seeker software especially for the latter two blocks & some of the seeker hardware is also being manufactured in India. Actually, another thing struck me about the Yakhont versus Brahmos, is whether Yakhont has also been developed in parallel to such varied versions.

Viewing 15 posts - 976 through 990 (of 1,980 total)