Yahoo25And what does this have to do with the J-10’s radar being fitted on FC-1? By just looking at it, FC-1’s nose is as big as that of J-10, if not bigger. FC-1’s nose is some 700m wide as reported by many souces. You can fit a pretty large radar there.
As for Gripen or J-10 being PAF’s higher tech fighters, Gripen was turned down, so you might as well forget about it.
Gripen was not turn down for ever. there is no report of even of government request. It has yet to go to Swedish parliment before it turndown. J-10 radar may be around 800MM if they have to scale down for FC-1
Yahoo25LOL. See the highlighted part 😉
It is expected at that time. now it is not so whats your point?
Yahoo25Yahoo,
You just don’t get it do you?
1. You trash Russian stuff.
2. You claimed PAF FC-1 will have specially fitted FIAR stuff
3. Now it is Chinese stuff
4. Crobato says it is the usual, standard item => Ergo nothing special was done for Pak
5. Chinese stuff = based on Russian stuff
6. But because “PAF requested”, it becomes better than India’s? 😀
LOL. LOL. LOL.
you like to twist the words every time.
You should better read the report. Before when Chinese stuff was totally based on Russian so it does not meet the requirement now it is not based so it meets. You have to read it AFM JUNE issue where PAF chief clearly mentions that China will attain Western standards. There is no such thing as Russian Standards.
You have to prove it that new Chinese stuff is based on Russian?
Yahoo25Here is the JANES report mentioning the same thing that in the begining every thing is of Chinese origin.
http://forum.airforces.info/showthread.php?threadid=24652&perpage=30&pagenumber=1
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2004
JANE’S DEFENCE WEEKLY – APRIL 28, 2004
——————————————————————————–
Sino-Pakistani fighter deliveries to start in 2006
AYESHA SIDDIQA JDW Correspondent
Islamabad
Additional reporting Michael J Gething JDW Aerospace Consultant
London
A joint venture between Chengdu Aircraft Industry in China and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) will begin initial production of 16 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder fighters – known as the FC-1 Xiaolong in China – in 2006, according to the Chief Project Director (CPD), AVM Shahid Lateef.
First deliveries to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will start mid-2006, AVM Lateef told JDW. Eight aircraft would be delivered to China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force, eight to the PAF, four of which would be built entirely in Chengdu and four assembled at PAC’s Kamra facility. The PAF has a requirement for 150 JF-17s.
Currently two prototypes of the FC-1/JF-17 are flying. The first took to the air on 25 August 2003, with the maiden flight of the second prototype on 9 April, both from the Chengdu facility in China. Two Pakistani test pilots flew the initial prototype for the first time on 7 April, beginning regular participation in the flight test programme.
The first two prototypes will explore the aircraft’s operational flight envelope and the operation of its subsystems. A third prototype is planned for systems integration and certification of the avionics suite and weapons fit.
The Chengdu Aircraft Industry and the PAC are in equal partnership and jointly developing and producing the fighter.
The JF-17/FC-1 is described as a multirole attack fighter with delta wings, a conventional tail and a fly-by-wire flight-control system. It is powered by a Russian Klimov RD-93 turbofan engine (derived from the RD-33 engine) and rated at 81.4kN (18,300 lb st) with reheat. There is also an air-to-air refuelling capability.
The avionics suite is of Chinese origin, comprising a smart head-up display, infra-red search-and-track system, night-vision goggle capability and ring-laser gyro inertial navigation system with GPS. An advanced radar is expected to be procured from French, Italian or Russian sources. The weapons system will include a special pod allowing day/night delivery of laser-guided weapons and the latest beyond-visual-range (BVR) and wingtip-mounted air-to-air missiles. There is provision for a twin-barrel 23mm cannon pod under the fuselage.
According to AVM Lateef, the staff requirement for the avionics package was prepared five years ago, is based on Western standards and is regularly updated. The PAF is satisfied with the avionics systems developed by China and these will be installed in the third prototype.
It is planned to establish a co-production facility for the avionics at the Kamra Avionics and Radar Factory. A similar strategy is planned for the BVR missile, which would be a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan.
The PAF has faced problems acquiring technology from abroad in recent years. AVM Lateef’s opinion is that this problem will be solved by this co-development and co-production project. The 150 JF-17s for the PAF will fill the gap created by the service’s inability to procure aircraft off-the-shelf.
With reports that the PLA Air Force plans to acquire about 1,000 of these aircraft, the manufacturers hope it can be built for a quarter of the cost of a modern jet fighter. The JF-17/FC-1 is seen as a potential replacement for the Dassault Mirage III/5, Northrop F-5 series, Shenyang J-6, Chengdu J-7 and Nanchang Q-5 aircraft.
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Yahoo25Actually, I’m interested in knowing the specs of the Chinese radar as well.
Also, any details on the avionics?
How is this GoldenArrow now. It is from April 17,2004 The NEWS where clearly it is mentioned that everything is Chinese and is better than what India possess. So where is the disconnect. and where i made any claim regarding Chinese Avionics? that June AFM issue is old interview.
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/
Induction of JF-17 in PAF by mid-2006
By Muhammad Anis
ISLAMABAD: The first batch of eight JF-17 (Thunder) aircraft jointly manufactured by Pakistan and China will be inducted into the Pakistan Air Force by mid-2006.
“The JF-17 aircraft is superior to the existing fleet of F-16 aircraft now with the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as far its overall potential and capability is concerned,” Project Director of JF-17 Air Vice-Marshal Shahid Lateef said while briefing newsmen here on Friday.
He said that the JF-17 would be equipped with state-of-the-art avionics and modern weapon like BVR missile system making it better than those possessed by Pakistan’s adversary.“We are in dire need of enhancing combat capability of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF),” he said. AVM Shahid said that Pakistan would not only manufacture the aircraft locally but also export it. “We will gradually acquire self-sufficiency in manufacturing JF-17 aircraft in Pakistan,” he said.
He said that by mid-2006 Pakistan would manufacture 16 aircraft, out of which eight would be for China Air Force.
He said the second prototype of JF-17 Thunder aircraft flew its successful maiden flight at Chengdu, in China on April 9. “This is the third prototype JF-17 aircraft to be manufactured as the second aircraft was manufactured only for ground tests, therefore, presently only two aircraft are flying,” he said.
He informed newsmen about the significance of April 9 when Pakistani pilots handled the flight and entered the supersonic regime.
The first prototype JF-17 aircraft, which had flown its maiden flight in September last year, is already passing through an extensive flight-testing phase. The PAF official informed that flight of the second prototype was a milestone in the progress of the project as it was manufactured and flown right on time. He said Pakistan has requested China to prepare an avionics package for Pakistan according to its requirements.
“The avionics package which also includes radar system would be state-of-the-art and meet our requirements,” he added. Shahid Lateef said the next prototype to be flown coming year would also consist of avionics and weapons system and it would be tested as a full combat aircraft.
He said the flight-test programme of JF-17 aircraft is moving ahead smoothly.
“Following fifty percent production of the aircraft in Pakistan, we will gradually move towards 100 percent self-reliance through transfer of technology from China” he said.
Yahoo2520 is just your number. It could be 10 or 15. In anycase, a third of PAF’s planes and perhaps more will have inferior avionics and radars as compared to Western ones.
20 is not my number. 15 to 20 is serial production number is given to AFM. It does not even include Chengdu numbers. Regarding Radar and avionics. It is stated that Chinese have met the requirements.(that person Rick fisher noted this thing) So what ever is the specification for comparable system from the West does not have any advantage. You should also look at otherside even if US releases either F-16MLU or F-16BLK52. PAF hi-tech fighter will be either Gripen or J-10. 50 JF-17 with Chinese systems will practically out the western alternative from PAF for ever.
Yahoo25Many ways?! Hmmm…..well…that is debatable. Remember all those Rafale Vs MKI, EF-Typhoon Vs MKI threads??!!
French are building Rafale without Indian consultancy. If IAF had chosed Rafale than Indian software techniques would have made it 5th generation fighter.
Yahoo25Why can’t they fit the same J-10 multimode radar on the FC-1?
I think J-10 is bigger aircraft. In AFM april issue it was clearly mentioned that J-10 has more range and hardpoints than FC-1.
Yahoo25So you agree that the PAF FC-1s will not have Western radars or avionics for a long time. Interesting.
What is meant by long time? 8 aircraft by 2006, 20 in 2007 and so on. All 50 will be finished by 2008 at earliest. I am not counting the other 8 going to China or Chengdu production line.
Yahoo25some kind soul pls type out the relevant part and post here so we can discuss it better. no need for the whole IDEAS thing just the relevant paras will work.
50 a.c arent prototypes, they are decent production run.
the whole meaning of news is 15 or 20 serial production per year.
2 seat is coming at the same time as single seater into serial production.(lengthened fuselage)
For first 50 aircraft Avionics and radar is Chinese(smaller version of J-10 multimode radar).
Yahoo25It said that at least the first 50 will have Chinese radar and avionics. And 8 will be made starting 2006. Assuming 10 per year, that’s means Chinese avionics until atleast 2012.
Pop pop goes the weasel, the weasel
from where you got 10 per year assumption? the para clearly states that production run will increase to 15 or 20 per year. and they are mentioning JF-17 not FC-1 so it means only PAC production will be 20 per year not the Chengdu. PAF is going to replace all the current aircraft by 2012.
Yahoo25my report has the same meaning but it was from last april.(probable april 17) this report was after AFM april interview( appear in June AFM issue).
Yahoo25🙂 Interesting data, when RCS is not a constant value.
RCS1 = reduced RCS and RCS2 = original RCS and the result is the detection-range of radar left from 1.0 or 100%
For a fighter radar it is ^0,75 exponent, when ground radar it is ^0,25 exponent.:confused:
Please explain those values. 🙂
The First value is relative to 100 Sqm bomber while the second value is relative to 5 sqm fighter. so F-4 is either 71% detection relative to 100sqm bomber or 150% relative to 5sqm fighter.
Yahoo25Old news. It was reported back in April that first testing will be on Chinese radar.
He said Pakistan has requested China to prepare an avionics package for Pakistan according to its requirements . “The avionics package which also includes radar system would be state-of-the-art and meet our requirements,” he added. Shahid Lateef said the next prototype to be flown coming year would also consist of avionics and weapons system and it would be tested as a full combat aircraft
You can see the scan there.
http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?t=5943&page=6&pp=25
Yahoo25PAF will be using K-8 for both BJT/IJT to save money.
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