Yahoo25Yahoo that is an expeculation and it is also wrong the Su-30MKK weights at max 34,500kg if you rest around 17,000kg of fuel and ordenance you get around 17,500kg of empty weight, just give me the empty weight
this about Su-30MKK. Su-30MKI is definitely heavier than this in empty weight and you havent provide the source of your weight speculation. that Globalsecurity numbers for MKI weights are wrong.
Flight International April 23,2002
The Su-30MKK has a redesigned airframe developed using three-dimensional modelling and CAD/CAM. It was strengthened to allow a 38,000kg (83,700lb) maximum take-off weight. The fighter can carry an 8,000kg weapon load on 12 stations and 10,000kg of internal fuel. The aircraft has two 150 x 200mm LCDs in each cockpit. The Su-27’s ground-attack weapons capability – limited to unguided rockets – has been replaced by an integrated system allowing the use of precision munitions.
The electronic warfare suite has been revised, receiving a sensitive radar warning/intelligence-gathering unit with an enlarged library of potential threats as well as the potential for expansion.
The Su-30MKK has an improved N-001 with additional data processors and an air-to-ground mode. Targeting is provided for a host of Russian air-to-surface missiles and guided bombs.
Yahoo25getting J-10 would waste all the investments that PAC Kamra is doing for training and setting up production line, but a feasible solution if PAF will accept a all-chinese weapons suite. I doubt PRC would want to hand over their latest toy for western cos like Grifo or Thales to look closely at yet considering the J-10 is not publicly displayed in a airshow.
according to your logic FC-1 are sent to France or Italy to install Radars?
All weopons and integration test are done inside China on next aircraft for quick production start. THe only way MIG would not want to sell the engines if India buy 200 new MIG-29(which is not likely to happen as $50 Oil price will produce $8B hole in India limited Tax revenues)
PAF has requriement for two aircrafts. It doesnot matter which one comes first. the high or the medium.
Yahoo25This is a new report.
I can see the date.
Yahoo25But you are not taking in consideration the weapons load and that will rest weight also to the max weight and the average Flanker weights around 17,000kg and has a thrust of 25,000kg so still the Su-30MKI can be lighter than the Su-35 because the Su-30 and Su-27UB are lighter than the Su-35 the Su-27UB trainer version weights 17,500kg in empty weight
Even the basic Su-27UBK weighs 17700KG and it is rated to carry 4000KG. than add 400KG extra for BAR radars, 1200KG for TVC and canards and over the top of that structural reinforcement to carry extra 4000KG. Why do you think Su-30MKK Maximum takeoff is over 38Tons(10Ton fuel and 8Ton weopons) and you come with 20 Ton empty weight.
the new russian Su-27SK program want to increase Maximum take off to 34Tons to carry full 8000KG and Su-27SK carries lighter radar compared to BAR, no second seat, no TVC or Canards.
Yahoo25thats the Mig-29k i guess….
if that’s “ancient”….
can you post a picture of the “modern” FC-1(which you champion as better than the Su-30mki) which has foldable wings, auxilary air-intake, IRST and having air to air refuelling capability….
What has foldable wings, auxilary intatke, IRST and air refuelling has to do with modern design. Modern design means reduce RCS and drag.
Yahoo25just look at the ancient aircraft.
Yahoo25Some RCS data. Just to think about, maybe. 😉
MiG-21: 4qm
MiG-29: 3qm
RafaleD: 2qm
B-1B: 0,75qm
(data from Doug Richardson, STEALTH)
Still having no idea, it is not difficult to see, that RCS has nothing to do with size. 🙂
Rafale is below 1sqm, MIG-21 is 3sqm. there is no evidence of MIG-29 3Sqm.
Yahoo25In the future all MKI will be mentained and served by India only. The long term effects of that is no longer the responsibility of SUKHOI and Russian producer.
thats quite a statement to make just like MIG-21 upgrade. Flanker will continued to be served by Sukhoi as they will need upgradation and maintainance after some time. The time when it become fully Indiangenized is very long way into the future. Maybe centuries.
Yahoo25i wonder why so passion for one aircraft, i like Indian girls as Paksitani ladies they are quiet beautiful, the FC-1 is an aircraft but both India and Pakistan have enormous socioeconomic troubles to say you envy each other, or even say the Chinese send a person into orbit when in reality in all the third world there is so much injustice, poverty and ignorance that even sending a human into orbit is a small drop in the ocean of problems that China India and Paksitan and all of the third world have.
Technically speaking the Su-30 is a better aircraft but even i feel Yahoo25 is wrong i hate when some people call him names, he likes his FC-1 to a point to disagree with everybody to me is okay because disagreeing you can learn or confirm points, i personally think he is wrong and blinded of the reality simply because he likes the FC-1 to a point to do not see the true limitation that jet has but i like to disagree with him because he is polite and he asked me questions and in that way i also learn
We are strictly discussing FC-1 versus Su-30 in LWF vs HWF context. So only those two things should be discussed on merits. You haven’t provided any convincing data or argument in defence of Su-30. Also we are comparing very basic FC-1 just like JAS-39A or F-16A. A single structural upgrade will increase hard points, Maximum takeoff weight and external weopon load of FC-1 substantially so whatever little arguements left in defence of Su-30 will become part to history.
Yahoo25You did not provide me with the empty weight, you have given me normal take of weight and Max take off weight, but the empty weight you have not, i have seen figures of aroun 17,000kg or 16,500kg for the Su-30MKI empty weight and Max speed of Mach 2 and that is a beleiveable weight, if you say the empty weight is 24,000kg is heavier than even a MiG-31`s empty weight.
and as the Su-30MKI spends fuel it`s thrust to weight ratio will improve as any fighter does.
Read carefully. The data for Maximum fuel reserve of 9400KG and Normal fuel reserve of 5270KG is given which is used to calculate Normal take off weight. Just use simple logic. Even the single seat Su-35 weighs 18400KG and Su-27UB weighs 17700KG so how can double seat.Su-30MKI(TVC, Canards) weigh less than both of them.
Yahoo25[QUOTE=F-18 Hamburger]
this fact QUOTE]
It’d be nice if you followed your own advice. Non-existing avionics systems and weapons for a series of prototype aircraft are NOT a fact :rolleyes: idiot, you may go shoot yourself and hope that your god gives mercy on your stupidity.
nope. the avionics are at bench testing since early this year. Next year its going into integrated. So how it is non-existent. You cannot make Flanker real stealth plane. you can reduce its rcs upto certain extent. Weight reduction is also a possbility but it will take long time.
Yahoo25A Su-30MKI can force the FC-1 out of area, which it may have to defend. Starting the attack from the distance with BVR-weapons. Doing so it can keep the distance from FC-1. The FC-1 pilots just can hope to survive such attacks or leave the killing-zone. The FC-1 has not the sensors, the power and combat persistence to reverse the situation really. Slim chance is some radar-shadow from the ground, anti-loc flying profiles and a good ECM suit, to survive over that area to defend. No time left to go for the distant Su-30MKI. When doing so you give up coverage of the aera to defend. Lured away from Su-30MKI, which achives by that a mission kill for you. When the FC-1 is under attack, there is a good chance for other hostile intruders to pass by unnoticed or slip-in and do the damage.
Different views are never silly, but using such word is never a clever idea. 🙂
Which sensors you are referring to which FC-1 lacks to deal with Su-30? FC-1 is coming with integrated EW system, IRST and multi-target radar. If Su-30 comes into BVr range it will be shoot. there is no other way around. If Su-30 chose to disengage(by how much km) than the rest of FC-1 takeoff from widely dispersed airbases will take care of it. there is whole interview with avionics chief at Pakdef.info. Su-30 doesnot have the Stealth and Supercruise ability to surprize FC-1 and you cannot get away from this fact not to mention passive attacks from datalinked group of FC-1.
Yahoo25> The Chinese Super-7 [Chao Qi] aircraft is being fitted with Russian RD-93 power plants.
where did he mention anything explicit about PAF ? dont forget china is supposed to buying up some too – or so they say 😉
the JDW report is also newer.
JDW report is reheresed of last year news without mentioning a source. they should put name of the person. First 16 production aircraft will be assembled at PAC with 8 rexported to back to China thats the program.
Yahoo25FC-1 is not dependent on RD-93. Despite russian insistance no contact has been signed yet.
Just look who are hoping for contract sign and fullfillment.
BBC Monitoring Asia Pacific
English
.Text of report in English by Russian news agency Interfax-AVN web site
Moscow, 14 April: The Moscow-based Chernyshev Plant, which is part of the MiG Aircraft Corporation, plans to deliver a large batch of RD-93 engines to China.
“The Chinese Super-7 [Chao Qi] aircraft is being fitted with Russian RD-93 power plants. Three aircraft have already been equipped with such engines and are undergoing tests at the moment. Delivery of a large batch of such power plants to China depends on the results of the ongoing tests,” Chernyshev Plant Director-General Aleksandr Novikov told a news conference at the Dvigateli [Engines]-2004 international engine show in Moscow on Wednesday [14 April].
Novikov said that the batch may comprise 500 RD-93s, with the first batch totalling 100 power plants.
“It is a very profitable project for us. We hope the contract will be signed and successfully fulfilled,” Novikov said
Yahoo25Yahoo you are all right, and were from the beggining :rolleyes:
Everyone stop arguing with him.
You make a very silly assumption regarding disengagement. remember we are not taking about USAF or USN attack. When one Su-30 refuse to fight one FC-1 and leave the area than it does not mean that the same Su-30 will meet the same FC-1 when Su-30 turns back. Not all fighters leave the airbase at the same time when there is 3 to 1 number advantage. So in reality it is hard to concieve exact scenario.
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