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JSLLL4

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March 16, 2012 at 5:01 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348128

JSLLL4
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Avionic-wise the present J-10s are similar to F-16 Block 30 examples at best.

False. J-10 had quadruplex-redundant digital fly-by-wire from the start, this being much more advanced than the analog fly-by-wire in F-16 Block 30. J-10’s KLJ-10 radar is in the class of AN/APG-68(V)9 fitted in F-16 Block 50, and can guide PL-12 and YJ-83 missiles. Plus, you won’t see anything like J-10’s cockpit which is better than that in F-16 Block 50, in any F-16 Block 30.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/j10cockpit3np.jpg/

there’s a good shot at 6:51 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oXIZ3KG2-A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os5KVD8vBiE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBXOz2EMIM

This is the KLJ-7 radar fitted in JF-17, and is a smaller version of KLJ-10 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SlZR_OtAy3I/AAAAAAAAAzw/6KlQvpDYNfY/s1600/JF-17%2BThunder%27s%2BMMR.JPG

In terms of avionics, early production J-10 is better than F-16 Block 50.

Just for fun, the best J-10 airshow performance to date http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ri_c72nR0c&feature=related

March 16, 2012 at 4:13 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348183

JSLLL4
Participant

Better ask AVIC.
The J-10 project its not exactly described in detail on open sources, and i would imagine there are a lot more diferences between the J-10A and the J-10B than the air intake.
By example, can the J-10A airframe cope with the electrical demand for the AESA(?) and respective cooling system without extensive (and expensive) upgrades?

Yes, J-10 can power an AESA, reportedly being 10 kW in power. F-16 can so J-10 AKA Chinese F-16 can as well. In any case, the existing J-10s can be recycled and replaced by new built machines without any problem.

March 16, 2012 at 3:46 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348189

JSLLL4
Participant

Existing one.

Interesting. Does this mean all existing Generation Uno J-10s can be upgraded into Generation Zwei ones without being completely rebuilt from scratch? The airframes are so different I didn’t think this was possible.

March 16, 2012 at 3:43 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348190

JSLLL4
Participant

There is some confusion regarding this. One recent rumor has 2 contenders for the J-10B RADAR. Above image is of the losing PESA, while the winner is an AESA by the 14th Institute. Dunno what to think of it

That’s an AESA that was shown at an exhibition. Here’s the board http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7083/zzzradar2.jpg. All radar used by PLAAF are from NRIET which is in Nanjing.

You can see it’s the same one in the 1035 prototype

http://wareye.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/J10bfighteraircraft_thumb.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T4KSgVPKKxg/TdVFbEexqbI/AAAAAAAABBA/F5dmw1NbRrc/s1600/Chinese+J-10B+Fighter+Jet+with+AESA+Radar.jpg

March 16, 2012 at 3:31 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348249

JSLLL4
Participant

Back to the topic. Does anyone know if the F-16 Block 30 that LM used to test DSI was a new-built plane or an existing one that they took and modified the airframe? I don’t think it would be easy to convert an existing airframe to have DSI, the airframe is completely different.

March 16, 2012 at 3:27 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348252

JSLLL4
Participant

well, if the aircraft in WWI could be made in such numbers, it was also because of their relatively low complexity… if the J-10 is anywhere near comparable to them in that area, one can only wonder of what use it would be in a modern war…

there’s no doubt that production rate could be increased for any fighter in the world, if a wartime necessity required so, but “thousands per week”… er…. no…

not even close 😀

Actually, these days they use robotic arms to make machines such as jets and cars, which is why a single car factory in the US can easily pump out hundreds of thousands of cars, which are much more complex than the ones decades ago, within any given month. AVIC can easily make thousands of J-10s within any given month.

March 16, 2012 at 3:21 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348256

JSLLL4
Participant

A nonsense claim to stay polite.
There is still the question left about the reasons for the very limited production rate of the J-10?! 😎

Currently, about 260 Genearation Unos have been manufactured. Production has switched to the much improved Generation Zweis. What’s the rush? In wartime China can manufacture hundreds of J-10s per week. Look up how many tens of thousands of planes were manufactured within years during WW2, and that was done all by hand. Every component of J-10 Generation Zwei is entirely Chinese and is not dependent on any foreign supplier.

Oh, by the way, the US operates over 1,000 F-16s, but only a couple hundred of them are F-16 Block 50s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon_operators

No major power other than the US, such as the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, China, Russia, Sweden operate F-16s. Not even Canada and Australia and India operate F-16s. New Zealand I think does though.

March 16, 2012 at 2:58 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348263

JSLLL4
Participant

A “look” has not combat capability in itself. A nominal stronger installed trust may give a shorter take-off run or a better accelleration at subsonic speeds at first and gives nothing away about the practical behavior.
The production run of the J-10 is still very limited by Chinese demands of a fighter in the F-16 class. 😉

Oh, you might have forgotten, China’s population is nearly 20% the global population. Do F-16 users account for that much of the global population? 😎

March 16, 2012 at 2:38 am in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2348484

JSLLL4
Participant

J-10 Generation Zwei production prototype 1035, looks much sleeker and more modern than Rafale and F-16. I’m surprised it still doesn’t have wingtip pylons. The traditional air intake is replaced with DSI and the traditional mechanical radar is replaced by an AESA. Engine is a new state-of-the-art Chinese WS-10 with around 30,000 lb of thrust and FADEC, replacing the AL-31FN. Also possible is the replacement of 3 separate LCDs by an integrated LCD. Hopefully the new J-10 gets exhibited at this year’s Zhuhai air show in November.

http://img.fyjs.cn/Mon_1108/27_72972_8e928633f96633a.jpg

http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-10B_1035b.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5fzSt0WbI

radar http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3367/j10bradarbetter.jpg

engine http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/WS-10B1.jpg

Thing I don’t get is why LM upgraded a Block 30 F-16 to test DSI but then did not upgrade the rest of the F-16s. Anyone know why?

March 15, 2012 at 12:47 am in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2349013

JSLLL4
Participant

So why are you wasting both our time here ?

For communication of course. 😀

March 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm in reply to: Hot Dog's Ketchup Filled F-35 News Thread #2349258

JSLLL4
Participant

Don’t bother Spud.

Generation Zwei and Advanced PLA Mach 17 SUperJet missiles can make J-7 better than F-22.

As long as it has DSI of course.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. J-7 can surely be better than F-22 in the eyes of some.

March 14, 2012 at 5:07 pm in reply to: Hot Dog's Ketchup Filled F-35 News Thread #2349275

JSLLL4
Participant

If F-22 does have stealth, then why wasn’t it deployed in Libya?

March 14, 2012 at 5:01 pm in reply to: Rafale vs F-16b52+ and J-10 #2349328

JSLLL4
Participant

J-10 Generation Uno is in the same class as F-16 Block 50/52. J-10 Generation Zwei to be introduced later this year is in the same class as F-35.

Uno http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=17874

Zwei http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal12/11401-11500/gal11403-J-10-Gustafson/00.shtm

March 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm in reply to: Hot Dog's Ketchup Filled F-35 News Thread #2349332

JSLLL4
Participant

The F-117 was detected at VERY short ranges by a LONG WAVE radar. The F-117 was also missing the ability to detect that the radar was looking for it and did not have the ability to defend itself IF it had detected the radar.

Fighter based AESA radars are X-Band (the specific band that the F-35 is ‘tuned’ to hide from).

The F-35 is a generation beyond the F-117 in RCS and the capability to detect and defend against radars that are looking for it.

I’m surprised they left an old 1960s radar unjammed. Without using jamming, I’m betting F-117 can easily be detected by WW2 era radar at considerable ranges.

March 14, 2012 at 4:50 pm in reply to: Hot Dog's Ketchup Filled F-35 News Thread #2349336

JSLLL4
Participant

And how did you come up with a figure of 100 miles away ?!

Stealth edges are not effective against AESA which does omnidirectional scanning rather than unidirectional scanning like traditional mechanical radar does. Plus, Cadillac CTS uses stealth edges and yet does not have lower RCS.
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