HAL is convinced of the benefit as HAL has never designed or built an aircraft of this size. Since we all know Russians often take very stupid decision, we can clearly see that stupidity here also. For just 45 aircraft, they are parting away with the huge profits that can be reaped from the future sales. All these for the need of just $300.35 million 😮

On the economical side, this JV is almost a loss-making deal or lets say zero-minimal profit margin deal for Russia in the long run. I wont fault them, bcoz they are still in the Soviet era in terms of business and does not even know the basics of good business and the benefit of calculated risk in a project development.

The entire development cost is projected at $600.7million of which just $300.35million is what India will need to pay for the deal.

If India walks out of it and Russia develop it on their own, they will need to sell just 12-13 x MTA @ $50million/unit (which is less than 1/3rd the cost of C-130J) to recover the sunken development cost. If the project cost is doubled, then they will need to sell 24-25 aircraft to recover that amount.

If Russia sells it at $80million/unit (less than half the price of C-130J), they can recover the sunken cost with sale of just 7-8 aircraft.

If they can sell this IL-214 in any open tender deal for 45 aircrafts in the future @50-80million/unit, they will be able to make no less than $2.25 – $3.6 billion in sales with an initial investment of $600.7 million!

In short, due to the complete lack of proper business approach, Russia is actually throwing away the profits which they could have reaped from the MTA sales. What Russia really needs is not western football coaches for their clubs & national team, they need to hire some ex-CEOs from west or Indians to chart out a course on how to market their product/concept and make good profit margins from it.

Btw, MTA was proposed in 1999-2000 and it was India who dragged its feet and in the process also got targeted by lobbyist. We now have that lobby in front of us in the form of US product promoters inside India & Tata. By delaying it, they might have made good profit & commission from Indian tax-payers money with the sale of C-130J. Whoever in India dragged the MTA project this long had the intend of helping the sale of C-130J @ $160.4million/unit to the IAF. Nothing else defines the delay on a project which is/was clearly tilted in favor of HAL upping its design & development capability through this JV.

Your calculations are way off! The capex need to be recovered from operational profits and not sales. If you assume that there is a 15% profit margin and sale price is 60mn USD, you get only USD 9 Mn from each aircraft. You need to sell 67 aircraft to just recover it! Plus, you need to add the time value of money (ie the interest rate for debt and IRR for equity on this capex) to find the number of aircraft needed to make an absolute profit.

What Russia is getting through this deal is:
1. assured sales
2. a partner to share capex if project is unviable (this can happen – not all aircraft developments are success)

What India is getting is:
1. Workshare and experience
2. Cheaper plane

So, as you can see, this is a deal benefitting both parties. That is why it is happening; Neither Russian nor Indians are fools

half runaway is BS unless you know the loads, internal fuel capacity and the power of electronics.

U really think IAF and everyone else involved with testing are morons?

They would be indeed, but the european of the time didn’t do anything that every other country didn’t. And slavery was not a race vs race thing either, most of the slaves sent by the UK to the colonies being children kidnaped from scotland or ireland & wales anyway. Besides slave trades was not gvt to gvt trade. It was not France selling slaves to whatever country. It was a buisness for some families all over. N’hésite pas à rechercher la liste des plus gros propriétaires de bateaux négriers, ça te donnera un aperçu de qui profitait de ce commerce.

Besides the european countries where the first countries in the world to ban slavery at all. There is a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to slavery, and obviously you swallowed it all.

Nic

South Asians associate the UK flag to the exploitation suffered by them under British rule – So by your logic, UK should change its flag!

Eventhough slavery was not a feature, the exploitation of South Asian continent was a race thing; the ****** natives cant rule themselves; therefor enlightened white ppl should be the rulers.

Similarly, the slavery practiced by North Americans was a race thing! Only coloured ppl were slaves.

@AZ/Kovy,

This is something of an over-simplification. For the most complex scenarios, with very large numbers of bogeys, and assuming no MIDS and no AWACS, the AESA does theoretically have advantages in some Air-to-Air scenarios.

However, in less complex (but still multi-bogey) engagements, the wider ‘look’ angle of the mechanically scanned array (MSA), coupled with greater gimbal limits, longer range (and especially longer range at those limits) give the MSA compelling advantages in many (some would say most) real world air-to-air scenarios.

Certainly to suggest that the MSA has advantages only in 1 v 1 intercept scenarios is so grossly simplistic as to be effectively incorrect.

@Swerve,
Indeed. And the ability to integrate third party weapons on Gripen (eg Israeli or FSU/Warpac) was always a design driver for the export market, and is a capability that is not matched by either Rafale or Typhoon.

If MSA was so good, nobody would have opted for ESA. The fact that Russia and France opted for PESA versions for thei main fighters (even before development of AESA versions) after having successful MSA point otherwise.

re: the AMCA thing, honestly there would probably be a signifigant conflict of interest between Russia and India re: work-share if India wants to do alot. ¨Leading¨ the project per se need not be a problem, since that could leave signifigant core work to Russia… but both sides working on one plane could still be problematic. I do think a single engine approach would be useful for both countries, in which case even without a shared program, the option may exist to share components including engine, amongst other parts. Both sides get full ownership of their plane, while sharing economies of scale re: components. A design derived from a PAK-DA engine could be an option… I could see a design derived from Item 127 as well, if it has enough growth margin. Since India would already be building 127, I could see serious interest in that from their end. On the other hand, Snecma-Kaveri may not be overly impressive for a c. 2025 engine, but it will be compatable with IAF/IN´s fleet of Tejas, MMRCA (if Rafale wins) /and/ AMCA if they go that route, so it will have benefits of it´s own for India. (though Tejas+Rafale seems plenty enough synergy to me, and IMHO going for a real 5th gen engine would be India´s interests if they expect AMCA to fulfill the expectations they are putting on it)

I see rationale for a Russian single-engined light/medium fighter at many levels: cost for RuAF fleet itself, exportability, and simply keeping development capacity fresh, post-2020… Alternating new developments with upgrades (e.g. to PAKFA) facilitates a spiral development program while continually keeping the development base strong. Engine synergy with either Izd. 127 or the PAK-DA engine would be a no-brainer to me.

AMCA is supposed to twin engined. So i doubt RuAF would be interested (if they want a single engined light fighter). AMCA is likely to be in Rafale weight category.

MCA is already on the works. Wiki says a wind tunnel model is shown during AI 2009. If that is true, it is ahead of Korean design. Whether MCA design is suitable for them is entirely different matter. MCA is supposed to a 20T aircraft, while Japanese design seems to be smaller.

Which plane can withstand a hit a 30 mm shell? Even though i have doubts about F-35’s cost-efficiency, as an fighter it has decent capabilities.

If you are sticky for “exact” numbers, I don’t have. In fact our Indian Govt also don’t have the “exact” numbers.

To be helpful to your research, it is more than 20,000 farmers commited suicide. In lingo here it is 20,000+++

Indian gvernment? i thought we were discussing about N.Korea. So anybody can pull any figure and say anything? How can u say it is more than 20000? Just dont pull figures if u cant back it up.