Allen.

It really makes no difference whether he was wannabe or a fully paid up, card carrying member of Al Qaeda. The end result of the successful detonation of that amount and type of explosive would have been the same.

Yes, and I’m questioning just how likely the ‘end result’ really was…?

As for the unsuccessful detonation and why it has not been used more widely, perhaps it is difficult to board an aircraft successfully with this virtually untraceable explosive and a system with which to detonate it. My understanding is very limited but perhaps he didn’t have enough of the catalyst (nitroglycerine) to create a reaction which would have led to detonation.

So do we all consider ourselves lucky that this lad was nothing more than a highly politically opinionated young man, who could have chosen a more appropriate line of study whilst in London ?

As regards the watch list, it seems he has been on that since May when he was refused a visa to visit the UK. Question now is whether there was a security failure regarding him being allowed to travel, or is it that the security agencies simply have too many people to ‘watch’ for?

I agree with you there on that score. Whoever is watching the ‘watch list’ maybe needs to be relieved of their ‘watch’ more often… 🙁

Ren, I can follow the thread of your argument which is commendable but it is utopian

Indeed it is, so let’s strip down what we have and aim for it…

I cannot believe that the undemocratic, unaccountable, definitively corrupt, vastly over-managed, bureaucratically inept federal EU would be a better model than what’s on offer here.

Maybe it’s worth a go, let’s let someone ‘bigger’ and more “corrupt” than us run the show for a while in general terms. I think my point is that it may finally enable us to see ourselves as a nation better and therefore figure out that what we have already is perhaps worth investing in…:rolleyes:

Howabout a devolution for England within a federal and reorganised Europe ? Go on, give it a go !

Hi Ren
The ‘doing better’ stuff is usually about ‘free’ precscriptions and car parking,I find it difficult to argue against that sort of stuff.
I wonder how different things would have turned out if John Smith had survived ? He seemed to be fairly well regarded.
I could understand why some people voted for ‘teflon tony’ at the time (I certainly didnt :D).

But Broon is just unelectable…he was an extremely bad chancellor (prudent :rolleyes:) and the lord only knows why labour let him take over as PM.
Of course in reality he still is the chancellor but uses the ‘puppet’ as his front man .

cheers baz (i’ll have a Lagavulin 😀 )

Personally I think the ‘doing better’ thing is about intelligently looking after the interests of your tax payers and contributors. Stringent management is everything, especially when it comes to social welfare and how it’s policed. I grew up variously between the UK and Eire, couldn’t believe as a child how well looked after pensioners were there, and that was well before the ‘Celtic Tiger’ boom and bust period, which I also believe was badly managed.

Every ‘team’ needs a prudent, informed and smart manager to win medals. In recent years or indeed months, we have witnessed what an inept, greedy and corrupt political system we have here in the UK. I’d still like to know why anyone thinks that voting for an already established political party alternative that’s capable of forming a credible majority and therefore ‘solution’ will make this a better place to be..

Sometimes I think the bigger EU federal role may be what’s required.. ?

Hey Ren…Dont forget that I am a ‘sweaty sock’ myself :D,

Your personal hygiene habits are none of my concern Baz ! :D;)

The Scots and Welsh have done pretty well out of ‘New’ Labour,as my colleagues at work remind me about ad nauseum.
I feel ashamed to be a jock when I see what Broon has done to this country both as ‘prudence’ and then as our (unelected) Prime Minister.

rregarrrds baz

Yes, a perceived ‘doing betterness’ that some people still see as just catching up with the rest of ‘modernity’. I agree with you that ‘Hen Broon’ has been something of an embarrasment. I’m still not convinced however, that there is anyone or party (for now) that is equipped to do anything better or more inspiring for Team GB. And no that’s not me sticking up for the t*at either…

I’d still like to see a gentle/subtle/intelligent rethink applied to the British politcal/democratic process, perhaps within an enlightened, and evolved European circumstance. If there’s one thing I’m sure of it’s that ‘Great Britain’ the concept, has been dead for a long, long time for those of us in the provincial areas. I understand that there are still some ’empire believers’ tucked away in certain corners, but I think we have wasted enough time clinging to the bulldog and that perhaps it’s time we took the dog for a walk…

From what I read, he used PETN which is a very powerful explosive, but in order to get through security they probably had to devise a non detectable way of detonating it, which mitigated the explosion.

Ok, what’s PETN and what can be done to make it more ‘sniffable’ ?

Regarding the watch list question, you would first have to ask the Nigerian and American Authorities in Lagos. Especially after the family had expressed their concerns regarding both their sons whereabouts and his extremist views to Nigerian and American authorities in Lagos. You would have to aske the Dutch about his ability to travel unimpeded through Amsterdam and you would have to ask the Americans again about how a man on a watch list, travelling under his own name was allowed to board an American airliner to the United States. That’s before you consider the where and the how he obtained what, according to the news yesterday, was a pretty sophisticated explosive mixture. For some reason, and thankfully, he was unable to detonate the device properly. The only thing puzzling me is why he has been charged with one count of attempting to detonate an explosive device. Surely, it should be numerous accounts of attempted murder?

Regards,

kev35

You most certainly have to wonder about all of that stuff Kevin, without a doubt. You also have to wonder exactly how many times the intitial report about ‘ a man with firecrackers’ got bandied about and just exactly how sophisticated this explosive really was ? If it’s so clever, why doesn’t it get aboard airliners more often ? Is this (at the end of the day) another shoe bomber attempt by a misguided wannabe ?

If it drifts back in to commercial aviation, will it be moved back?

The flight was a Northwest Airlines (Delta) flight – 253 – from Amsterdam to Detroit on an A330-300 large commercial aircraft, made by Airbus. Northwest/Delta have 21 of these type in their fleet 😀

😀

So why do Delta now choose to refer to it as a ‘Northwest’ flight…? Too late, they already repainted the Airbus, amidst their passive/aggressive merger… er takeover… !

“Hello, this is Delta customer service, if you enjoyed today’s flight, please press ‘D’ for Delta. If not, dial ‘N’ for Northwest…” :rolleyes: