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Wanshan

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  • in reply to: Skjold class patrol boat vs Houbei class missile boat #2018445
    Wanshan
    Participant

    Throughout history & excluding testing,
    how many ships have been sunk by another ship missiles ?

    The first anti-ship missiles, which were developed and built by Nazi Germany, used radio command guidance, these saw some success in the Mediterranean Theater in 1943 – 44, sinking or heavily damaging at least 31 ships with the Henschel Hs 293 and more than seven with the Fritz X.
    In 1967, the Israeli Navy’s destroyer Eilat was the first ship to be sunk by a ship-launched missile – a number of Styx missiles launched by Egyptian missile boats off the Sinai Peninsula.
    In the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 the Indian Navy conducted two raids using OSA 1 – class missile boats employing the Styx on the Pakistani Naval base at Karachi. These raids resulted in the destruction or crippling of approximately two thirds of the Pakistani Navy. Major losses included two destroyers, a fleet oiler, an ammunition ship, approximately a dozen merchant ships and numerous smaller craft.
    The Battle of Latakia in 1973 (during the Yom Kippur / Ramadan War) was the scene of the world’s first combat between anti-ship missile-equipped missile boats. In this battle, the Israeli Navy destroyed Syrian warships without suffering any damage, using electronic countermeasures for defense. After defeating the Syrian navy the Israeli missile boats also sunk a number of Egyptian warships, again without suffering any damage in return, thus achieving total naval supremacy for the rest of the war.
    Anti-ship missiles were used in the 1982 Falklands/Malvinas War. The British warship HMS Sheffield, a 4,820 ton Type 42 Destroyer, was struck by a single air-launched Exocet AShM, she later sank as a result of the damage that she sustained. The container ship Atlantic Conveyor was also sunk by an Exocet. HMS Glamorgan was damaged

    More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile (you could have found that yourself)

    in reply to: China vs Philippines #2018449
    Wanshan
    Participant

    China claims every uninhabited island, rock, reef & shoal out there, on the basis that Chinese fishermen have traditionally used them (their usage is held to override use by Vietnamese, Malaysian, Filipino etc. fishermen), claims that they all have their own territorial waters (even when the rock etc is only above water at low tide), & that those territorial waters extend for 200 nautical miles.

    China also argues that since international law states that rocks, reefs & shoals which are not permanently above water do not have their own waters, Japanese claims to territorial waters & an EEZ around some islets are invalid. It claims this applies even if the rock or whatever has been built up to keep it permanently above water, as Japan has done in one case. Note that China has put platforms on some South China Sea shoals so that they are no longer submerged at high tide, & claims that they’re therefore true islands.

    China also argues that its naval vessels have complete freedom of navigation (including passage by submerged submarines) up to 12 nautical miles from the coast of Japan & other states, on the basis that international law only recognises territorial waters out to that distance. Note that submarines are required to surface when entering the territorial waters of other states, unless they have permission from that state to remain submerged.

    Such a position is untenable as it applies one standard to China and another to Japan. Are you sure this is what the actual claims are? Aren’t territorial waters and EEZ being confused?

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2018526
    Wanshan
    Participant

    Silos… perhaps as in missile storage facilities?

    Otherwise, as suggested, would be SAMs.

    If so, that would suggest this facility would support SSBNs

    Wanshan
    Participant

    hm I am convinced of your words that the Gripen of patrol boats can defeat the J-20 of patrol boats.

    76mm vs 30mm cannon: no contest

    Wanshan
    Participant

    The Naval Strike Missile (NSM) is intended as anti-ship and land-attack missile. A multi-role version of the NSM is in development. This missile is called Joint Strike Missile (JSM) and will feature an option for ground strike and a two-way communications line. Improved features for the Joint Strike Missile include:
    Ability to attack sea and land based targets
    Aerial launch platform (F-35)
    Improved range over NSM to 240 km

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2018546
    Wanshan
    Participant

    A naval base getting missile silo’s …. my first thoughts are SAMs rather than anything else.

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2018816
    Wanshan
    Participant

    [TG for cached versions!]

    Prospects for the development of CICS for ships small and medium displacement on the basis of “demand-M”.

    Kopanev AA
    Professor, Director General of SPC “Meridian”

    Muzychenko ON,
    Professor, Chief Specialist

    The main problem of creating a CICS for ships of small and medium-displacement based on the experience in the development of a new generation. The forecast of the prospects for their development.

    Scientific-Production Company “Meridian” has developed a combat information management system (CICS) “The demand-M” a new generation which has successfully passed the state tests. The system is designed to automate the management of the use of military weapons systems and electronic means of ships small and medium sizes. She is currently installed on ships of Project 11356 (Fig. 1).

    CICS ‘demand-M “provides the following main tasks:

    • Collection, processing, displaying and documenting information on the tactical situation from all sources of information, the ship and the ship’s helicopter and ship connections;
    • Collection, processing and display status information, modes of operation, availability of ammunition systems and ship systems;
    • management of air defense ship means to solve problems of self-defense and collective defense ships compounds;
    • management of complex rocket, artillery and torpedoes the ship to sea targets;
    • management of combat-ship anti-submarine and antisubmarine weapons use;
    • planning and management using a helicopter for solving light air, surface and underwater conditions, tasks, anti-submarine warfare;
    • navigation and tactical maneuvering, the safe divergence from surface targets, and swimming in the joint compound, monitoring the passage of the ship route;
    • training of personnel for the management of all types of weapons the ship in a different tactical situation;
    • documenting information about the condition and operation of combat weapons systems, tactical situation, the actions of the operators.

    CICS ‘demand-M “is an open distributed adaptive computing system built on the basis of modern computing facilities in the local network. The structure and composition of the system shown in Fig. 2. The software complex is constructed on the basis of real time operating system QNX. Command and control tasks in functions are formed in specialized software systems.

    Pair with a set of weapons systems on the ship is carried out on digital channel – coupling devices such as T-119 and T-190, as well as to receive the primary radar information – T-181 instrument.

    Central computer – T-162 devices provide a solution to computational problems and work with a distributed database system, placed in these devices.

    In the complete set in the CICS provides eight workstations (AWS) commander in the SCE and the HSS, defense management, TPS, RTS, control anti-surface targets, flight control and technical control.

    For cartographic information from the card-server system includes a local area network Ethernet 10/100 Base.

    CICS provides a means of documenting the automatic operator selection and documentation of information with the ability to playback on ARM indicator (normal, acceleration and deceleration modes), and selection process according to various criteria for the analysis of systems and operator actions. Exchange of information within the system is carried out on a local area network.

    Depending on the specific project requirements, the ship of the instrumentation may vary.

    In the development of computer equipment used by foreign and Russian companies. The basis of the hardware devices CICS “Demand-M” make IBM-compatible computer firms “Advantech” and “Octagon Systems”. Implemented technical solutions and electronic components used ensure high system performance. It has a high reliability provided by the use of modern components, as well as redundant equipment, reconfiguration of the possibility of taking into account the technical condition of the individual elements and the autonomous maintenance of individual devices while maintaining the efficiency of the system. All workstations are interchangeable and can be quickly rebuilt to solve any problems that increase the reliability and survivability of military systems.

    ARM (Fig. 3) – is a trehmashinny complex based on the Intel Pentium and Pentium III, which consists of:

    • display device and input information, performed on a color fluorescent display with touch screen for dialogue with the operator;
    • tactical situation display device and the radar data in the form of a flat panel display color liquid crystal display with a diagonal of 18 “and a resolution of 1280 × 1024;
    • remote device to display the technical condition of the ship and its REV weapons systems, made on a color fluorescent display with a diagonal of 10.4 “and a resolution of 640 × 480;
    • Trackball trackball-type;
    • Functional Keyboard dialog interaction operator with CICS.

    ARM provides a mapping tactical situation on the background map information, as well as the status of weapons systems and the availability of ammunition ships, combat plans for their use, management teams, and various forms and other information in graphical and tabular form.

    Software and hardware for technical diagnosis of the complex provides automatic control of technical state of its power-up and during operation of the main purposes, detection and fault indication at the time of their occurrence, up to TEF, as well as issuing recommendations for its elimination, including the location of the failed module in the spare parts .

    The presence in the regime of “Training” allows for training of personnel, to maintain high combat readiness of the ship.

    System, “Requirement-M” compared with the existing domestic systems of similar purpose has unique features, which consists in the fact that:

    • significantly increased capabilities of the system for displaying and processing information about the tactical situation, improve the quality of information processing, the use of new effective ways and means of display for high visibility and quick perception of the operators. Displays information about the tactical situation is against the backdrop of electronic navigation maps. There are flexible management structure and modes of display information;
    • simplify the work of operators, due to more effective ways of displaying information, automate processes, training management solutions that ensure their automatic implementation and execution of automated control, use of sensory input commands; greatly expanded opportunities for solving complex air defense ship.
    • Provided a stand-alone and centralized use of AIA in a fully automatic, semiautomatic and manual modes for solving the ship self-defense and collective defense ships compound. The quality control problems, several times reduced the time to solve them, which leads to a significant increase in the effectiveness of air defense ship. Dead time of the system in solving air defense (from receipt of the goal before the issuance of the CO) is not more than 1 s and can be reduced by several times;
    • greatly expanded capabilities of the system for management of the ship weapons to solve problems against surface targets and objectives ASW, improved quality and reduced time to address them;
    • the system has ample opportunity to address navigation problems, problems of tactical maneuvering, provides continuous monitoring of safety of navigation and traffic on the route;
    • improved mass-dimensional characteristics (mass of the fully loaded 1600 kg max.), reduced power consumption (power consumption is not more than 1.2 kW), increased reliability (MTBF of at least 1,500 hours), the reliability of operation and damage control system ;
    • the system has ample capacity to provide training of personnel in a tactical situation, completely imitates real fighting.

    In solving the problems of arms control ship CICS “Demand-M” provides for the formation on the basis set on the ship systems and weapon systems of functional circuits light air, surface and underwater conditions, air defense units, ASW, anti-surface targets, management of the ship by helicopter.

    The main problem of creating CICS at the present stage

    This provides a comprehensive use of information from all sources for any of the ship’s weapons systems, which significantly increases the combat potential and combat survivability of the contours. Within each circuit CICS provides centralized management in automatic, semiautomatic and manual modes, by all means ship and their optimal use for the task with the required efficiency. In the process of management is taken into account the state of each system and its combat capabilities in the solution of the problem and determined the optimum composition of and a variant of the solution.

    During the development and testing of the system “requirement-M” revealed a number of problems (scientific, technical and organizational measures) to the solution of which rely heavily on the effectiveness of the combat use of the ship’s weapons systems, the cost of individual systems, and the entire ship’s weapons, as well as future directions and prospects for the development of CICS. The main of these problems include:

    • lack of domestic components, ensuring the creation of combat information and control systems that meet modern tactical and technical and operational requirements. In particular this applies to computer equipment and information display devices;
    • lack of information and technical conjugation of existing weapons systems and ship systems, which leads to significant problems when interfacing with CICS and organizations sharing in the CICS formed military units;
    • autonomous sources of information on air, surface and underwater conditions, the disparity range detection performance characteristics of weapons systems requirements of the ship, lack of automatic control mode of operation and sharing. Under these conditions, CICS is actually assigned the task of uniting all the information of the ship into a single functional complex lighting conditions (FKOO), forming a unified picture of the air, surface and underwater conditions, as well as the use of information from any source in the interests of all the ship’s weapons systems. The task is complicated by the significant difference in the accuracy characteristics of systems, a time of renewal of targeted information, as well as the lack of classification of types of targets;
    • inadequacy of national air defense system of the second generation to work in a centralized mode. Most of the existing ship’s air defense system designed as a stand-alone systems, including their own means of detecting or processing of primary radar data. Characteristics of detection are well aligned with the characteristics of the remaining elements of the complex and above all in the organization of dopoiska goals and capture them for support means support complex or its homing missiles. This makes it difficult to use for targeting information from other sources, the ship having different accuracy characteristics as compared with their means of detection systems, and reduces their effectiveness. To ensure the efficient use of facilities in a centralized mode of refinement is required. In addition, the existing air defense system does not provide for the automatic solution of problems of security of ships and aircraft connection with the use of weapons;
    • lack of effective means of simulating most of the existing weapons systems, which complicates the testing of their interaction with CICS and other systems and complexes of the ship, does not allow for debugging and testing, as well as joint training of personnel control loop arms ship free fundraising software to create the required tactical situation . For this reason, the joint test of all systems of contours in a complex tactical situation is not possible, which significantly affects the quality of castings CICS software and weapon systems;
    • Many of the existing system of the ship’s weapons are not effective means of documenting combat operations either do not have any. This makes it extremely time consuming, and in many cases impossible, the analysis of the system complicates the task of interfacing with other systems, testing, objective assessment of the actions of personnel. The problem is further complicated by the complex inspection and test systems consisting of circuits.

    Testing of CICS ‘demand-M “on the ship, etc. 11 356 and showed the possibility of an objective need for the integration of systems and complexes of the ship, and above all control systems, and antisubmarine weapons impact. This is due to duplication of most of the problems solved and these CICS systems management arms in solving problems and the PLO against surface targets, the presence of a significant resource of computing power that ensures the solution of complex problems and creating conditions for a further substantial increase. There are ample opportunities to integrate CICS systems sharing the use of weapons (SVS) and the joint navigation systems. Very difficult at this stage of the integration of CICS with the AIA ship, due to the specifics of their construction and operation.

    Prospects for the development of CICS

    Further development of CICS will be determined by several factors, technical, organizational and economic.

    Quick update hardware components of computers and information display devices presents a significant opportunity to improve CICS towards improving the technical and operational characteristics of systems that use more advanced and sophisticated methods of information processing and control algorithms for weapon ship, expanding the list of problems solved by CICS. Ample opportunities are to improve ways of displaying information.

    Significant impact on the development prospects of CICS will provide the changes in the systems themselves and the ship’s weapons complexes, and their features and functionality, since they largely determine the content and the list of problems solved by CICS. However, emerging in the current situation with the development of advanced weapons systems, ship fundamental changes in this area is not expected.

    Under present conditions a significant impact on the development of CICS will provide availability of orders on their development and delivery for both domestic and foreign customers. Lack of funding for new developments may cause, and in some cases has led to the loss of scientific and technological capacity and the collapse of the development teams. The most serious situation is emerging in the scientific and technical personnel who can undertake the development of modern methods and algorithms for data processing and control systems, ship weapons and tactics they use.

    However, the greatest impact on the prospects and directions of development of CICS are currently providing organizational factors and, above all, developed in the domestic industry and the organization Navy orders and financing the development and delivery of the ships weapons systems. This procedure causes the formation of a set of ship weapons systems and systems designed for individual orders, and in many cases are self-contained. In this case it becomes difficult to solve the optimization problem of weapons ship, and the more the system “ship-to-arms.” The problem is complicated and objective disinterest in existing conditions, both developers and relevant agencies ordering the Navy to conduct the course on the integration of naval weapons systems, as well as the complexity of integrated systems solutions to the issue of accountability for the use of weapons.

    Given the above, further development of CICS can be predicted in the following areas:

    improvement of the hardware, providing a further reduction in weight and size characteristics of the apparatus and its power consumption, reliability and stability of the combat system, improved testability and maintainability, increased convenience and simplification of maintenance;
    rapid growth in hardware performance, capacity of the display and enter information that will improve methods and increase the visibility of display information, to increase its volume, while ensuring a good perception of the operator;
    improved algorithms for data processing and control ship weapons systems;
    further increase the degree of automation control systems and complexes of the ship and increase the efficiency of their use;
    expanding list of features and problems solved by CICS;
    gradual integration and partial unification of hardware with individual weapons systems ship.
    When you save the existing organization and procedures for financing development of weapon systems and vehicles will be stored above problems, and especially the lack of integration between systems and complexes of the ship. Moreover, due to the increasing capabilities of hardware redundancy to increase in a broad range of management tasks in the CICS and mating systems and complexes. This will increases the cost of armaments of ships, increasing its total size and weight characteristics and power consumption, degrade the timing characteristics of the circuits and to restrain the growth efficiency of firing systems. The process of integration with other CICS systems and complexes of the ship will be very slow.

    If you change the approach to organization design and construction of the ship’s weapons systems, CICS functions can change significantly. At present we can consider two possible directions of such changes.

    The first is to move towards the creation of circuits that solve specific problems (lighting circuit of the air, surface and underwater conditions, the contours of air defense, ASW, anti-surface ship and helicopter control). With this approach, CICS functions will vary greatly and primarily related to ensuring the captain and other officers information about the tactical situation, the actions of the functional units to address the problems of combat, the challenges of decision support information to combat use of weapons and maneuvering the ship, battle planning action, transfer of command and the commander in making the appropriate contours mezhkonturnogo ensure information sharing and communication circuits. The volume of direct management tasks weapons systems will ship, apparently, reduced substantially.

    The second direction is to move towards a single integrated system of arms ship-optimized solutions for a certain range of military tasks, and involving the full integration of all information assets and weapons systems. If you choose this direction of naval weapons systems would occur integration of CICS systems and weapons control systems ship in a single system. This can provide significant improvement in performance throughout the ship and weapons systems to reduce the cost of production, but would complicate the design. It will also require a significant change throughout the organization develop systems ship weapons.

    But down in the current economic situation, the state organizations, developers and manufacturers of naval weapons, as well as changes in the structure of the Ministry of Defense does not allow to predict any significant changes in organization and approach to the creation of the ship’s weapons systems.

    Conclusion Conclusion
    Currently, the most expedient is to further the development of CICS to implement on their basis of centralized control mode of existing and emerging weapons systems as the main mode of NK combat use of the ship. At the same time, as a backup control mode it is advisable to maintain stand-alone modes of operation of weapons systems NC.

    The validity of this conclusion is illustrated by successful tests of the brain pr.11356 ship on which the CICS “demand-M,” which implements the above algorithm of management of the Tax Code, forming complexes of the ship’s systems and circuits of lighting conditions, air defense, ASW, anti-surface targets and management helicopter, carrying out centralized control of all weapons systems and ship them to optimal use in combat missions.

    System, “Requirement-M” has a high speed and provides control of the ship’s weapons in real time, eliminating the inefficiencies of individual weapons systems, and significantly increases the efficiency of the use of all weapons of the ship through the optimal management of individual funds. Analysis of its technical characteristics, as well as upgrading features shows that the CICS “Demand-M” in a position to meet all the requirements of both domestic and foreign customers for the foreseeable future. In addition, it created with the design of technological advance can significantly reduce the cost of CICS for arming any vessels of medium and small tonnage, that in the current economic environment is extremely important.

    Literature Literature

    A. A. Kopanev AA “Demand-M” – a new generation of automated control systems / / Military Parade. – 2000. – 2000. – № 5 (41). – S. 54.

    Two. Two. Baranov, MN, Korzh, IG Marine radio-electronic surveillance systems: the problems of the late XX century to century XXI / / Marine electronics. – 2002. – 2002. – № 1. – S. 24.

    Three. Three. Prospects of improving Nikoltsev electronic equipment of ships and their weapons / / Military Parade. – 2000. – 2000. – № 5 (41). – P.48.

    4. 4. Baranov, MN Electronics for the ship or the ship for electronics: with today’s challenges in the XXI century / / St. Petersburg Journal of Electronics. – 1996. – 1996. – № 1. – On 38.

    Five. Five. Labutin AI Fedorov, PG, SR Komarov Integrated bridge systems / / Marine electronics. – 2002. – 2002. – № 1. – S. 16.

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2018829
    Wanshan
    Participant

    can you provide a translate to the article?
    The site as a whole is not properly displaying the text and some what distorted in my browser.

    It is off the air. Probably too many visits all at once … give it a rest a few days, then we’ll try again.

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2018833
    Wanshan
    Participant
    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2018835
    Wanshan
    Participant

    ^^^ thanks man for digging it all. I’d missed that blog entry. But after reading it, I’m little more confused than earlier. 😀

    First of all, is EMCCA = MECCA & EMDINA = MEDINA?

    As I read it:
    EMDINA is a follow-on system to EMCCA
    EMCCA was developed under project MECCA
    EMDINA was developed under project MEDINA
    (i.e. project names are anagrammes of system names)

    From the above this is what I summarize
    P15, P16 and P16A have the computer-aided action information system (CAAIS) developed from project MECCA (or EMCCA??). i.e they come from the same family. Also, this MECCA/EMCCA is not a true CMS and only aids the operators by aiding them in taking the actions based on the solutions generated by the computers (?).

    I think EMCCA is a system that automates distribution of sensor data to various subsystems and cues them on to target, with weapons control divided by function: a computer that functions in the role of what the Russians call ‘second captain’ or ‘second admiral’. Western equivalent is Combat Data System.

    For a thorough discussion of ‘second captain’/CDS, see: http://books.google.nl/books?id=l-DzknmTgDUC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=%22second+captain%22+%22command+system%22&source=bl&ots=2sdQBUseEh&sig=oUrcO_jBmjO7QI41nCPKCCOfNTc&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=paSyT8uBK8Se-QaEyN3eCA&ved=0CGQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22second%20captain%22%20%22command%20system%22&f=false

    Where as,

    P17, P28 & 15A use/are to use the CMS/CIC developed under the project MEDINA (or EMDINA??) which is a further development from the MECCA family and a true CMS. It also means that CMS-17 on P17 is just one member of this MEDINA family.

    Am I right till here?

    Yes, I follow and agree. The implication is that there are CMS-15A and CMS-28 variants

    It still is confusing…

    In the below para, it is mentioned that P15 Delhi class only have many ‘citadels’ housing systems like MECCA (?) and the P17 have only one ‘citadel’ which is the CIC, called the EMDINA (or MEDINA??)

    You probably have areas for certain system e.g. one or more consoles for AAW weapons and associated sensors groupd together, dito for ASW, dito for ASuW. Realize that e.g. SA-N-9 SYSTEM comprises missile firing unit(s), but also a control unit sporting distinct rotating search/track radar and planar missile guidance radar. Likewise Kashtan system: one or more firing units with on mount sensors plus a dedicated search/track radar. Each system is cued from e.g. a main radar like Fregat M2EM. Weapons control is grouped functionally, so you have an AAW citadel which is ‘in charge’ of both the mentioned systems (e.g. on Adm. Chabanenko/Udaloy II). That is how I read it: citadels represent functional control groups (AAW, ASuW, ASW, EW and ?) In a two-tier system, you may control a function across several ships. This would be the case in flagships.

    Does it mean to say that P15 & Talwar class does not have all the systems integrated into a single combat control room/space like the P17?

    That is what it sound like.

    Delhi class is older than the first batch of pr.11356 and the site does mention the Talwar class ships to have CIC. So how he came to the conclusion that CIC is not present in the pr.11356, I don’t know.

    See the earlier link to The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 by Norman Friedman: on the next page, it discusses Krivak III CDS: this has a fully integrated command system and data bus. It is now a federated CDS using LAN’s.

    Functionally seperated weapons control can be a drawback when you have a multidimensional playing field e.g. a sub launching an anti-ship missile. Sonar might detect the launch but can it warn AAW? Radar may pick up the missile once it is airborne, but will the information on the initial location also be passed to ASW?

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -IV #2019013
    Wanshan
    Participant

    I’m sure there would be takers for the Santa Maria’s (Spanish built Perry’s) e.g. Taiwan, but also maybe Pakistan, or other NATO states (Turkey, Portugal, some former east bloc states).

    Since Turkey is looking at a LPH/LHD type ship… Principe d’Asturias might make a nice interim helicopter platform…

    Anyhow, ‘hot transfer’ would be preferable over ‘cold transfer’, IMHO.

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2019049
    Wanshan
    Participant

    The weapon-sensor fit of the Shivalik is controlled through a Combat Management System called ‘CMS-17’, designed and developed by the Indian Navy and manufactured by Bharat Electronics. The system allows seamless integration of the ship’s systems with the weapons and sensors of other ships in the fleet, thus enabling the concept of ‘Co-operative Engagement Capability’ (CES). With its ability to detect and engage surface, air and sub-surface assets of the enemy at extended ranges, the ship represents very significant combat-potential.

    http://www.defstrat.com/exec/frmArticleDetails.aspx?DID=241

    the Indian Navy has a captive centre of excellence in the Weapons & Electronics Systems Engineering Establishment (WESEE),

    it designed and developed the EMCCA computer-aided action information system (CAAIS) for the Project 16A FFGs and Project 15 DDGs, and was followed by the EMDINA family of combat management systems (CMS) for the Project 17 FFGs, Project 15A DDGs and Project 28 ASW corvettes. Both the EMCCA and EMDINA were developed in collaboration with TATA Power’s Strategic Electronics Division (SED) under the WESEE’s Project MECCA and Project MEDINA. The three Project 17 FFGs have on board the CMS-17 (developed under Project MEDINA) centralised combat management system, built by [Bharat Electronics Limited] BEL’s Ghaziabad-based facility.

    http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2011/08/wasted-opportunities.html
    http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/03/cms-radars-vls-modules-of-project-11356.html

    The EMDINA CMS is a follow-on to the EMCCA Computer Aided Action Information System (CAAIS), also co-developed by WESEE and TATA Power, under Project MECCA and is presently on board the three Project 16 FFGs, three Project 16A FFGs and three Project 15 DDGs

    http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/10/ipms-for-new-indian-warships.html

    All previous warships, including the Delhi-class DDGs and Talwar-class FFGs, do not have CICs, instead they have up to five ‘citadels’ on board, housing systems like the EMCCA. The Project 17 FFG, on the other hand, has only one citadel, which is the CIC, and is called EMDINA

    http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/02/project-samyukta-detailed.html

    See also here

    in reply to: Indian Navy : News & Discussion – V #2019054
    Wanshan
    Participant

    http://mr.shipbuilding.ru/images/docs/645.jpg
    Source: http://mr.shipbuilding.ru/magazine/n2/kopanev/ (in Russian)

    Prospects for the development of CICS for ships
    small and medium displacement on the basis of “demand-M”

    The main problem of creating a CICS for ships of small and medium-displacement based on the experience in the development of a new generation.

    Shivalik CIC(?)
    http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt66/fulcrum29/Shivalik_CIC.jpg
    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/03/some-more-pictures-of-ins-shivalik.html

    in reply to: F-35B or F-35C for the Royal Navy #2019298
    Wanshan
    Participant

    Those things with the anemic radar that has far shorter range than Sea King AEW and a poorer target-tracking capability? That are more a “stand-off carrier-radar substitute asset” than a “fighter direction & control asset”?

    I don’t consider them a true AEW aircraft at all.

    X-band (8 to 12.5 GHz sub-band) Airborne Early Warning (AEW) radar

    HEW 784 is an AEW optimised variant of Galileo Avionica’s (trading as Selex Galileo – formerly ELIRADAR) APS-784 coherent, digital, pulse Doppler maritime surveillance radar.

    primary role is the detection and tracking of multiple, low altitude air targets and sea-skimming anti-shipping missiles. Secondary roles include the detection and tracking of multiple sea surface targets and ground mapping.

    http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Electronic-Mission-Aircraft/HEW-784-Italy.html

    Clearly AEW, but not a control platform.

    in reply to: Indian Navy – News & Discussion – IV #2019313
    Wanshan
    Participant

    It maybe possible in the future though not sure if the current system on Delhi class is compatible. Maybe or maybe not.

    But I was talking about a time 12 months from now and in this time period Delhi class is not going to be upgraded. So the only ships with CCIS will be the 6 Talwar class and possibly 2+1 Shivalik class.

    Again, that is assuming P15 ‘as is’ does not have that capability. I’m not quite sure we’ve definitively established it does not have that capability already…. I’m also not even quite sure 11356 and P17 have the same CMS (there has apparently been a change in project cost [see: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Ships/Future/189-Frigate.html%5D, so perhaps only the last three share that, but again: no firm info). Also, I’m not sure CCIS refers to the CMS or the communications suite.

    P15 Delhi class (Italian derived Indian CMS)

    The Sea King Mk.42B is equipped with a surface search radar, dunking sonar and can carry two Sea Eagle AShMs or a combination of depth charges and AS-244 anti-submarine torpedoes. The helicopter can fly 400 km around the vessel and is equipped with a data link to download target data to the combat information centre, based on the indigenous Bharat Shikari (Hunter) combat data system, in the operations room. The combat data system, which is a derivative of the Italian IPN series of combat data systems, integrates Western, Russian and Indian systems, thus representing a remarkable technical achievement in system integration skills.

    The Delhi Class are the largest warships ever to be built in India and primarily act as command and control platforms for task groups and as screening escorts for the aircraft carriers. INS Mumbai, is more advanced than the other two vessels in the Delhi Class though minor modifications are already taking place on INS Delhi and INS Mysore. These vessels are well suited for power projection roles in the Indian Ocean Region and are fully fitted with flag facilities.

    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Ships/Active/182-Delhi-Class.html

    P17 Shivalik class (Indian CMS)

    A notable feature on these ships is the completely integrated ship data and communication management network. AISDN-17 ties in all shipboard functions using several Versatile consoles -VCS Mk2. The communication grid is built around a Gigabit Ethernet-based integrated ship borne data network, with a fibre optic cable backbone running through the vessel.

    The Combat Management System (CMS-17) is a locally developed system (by WESEE) with stand alone Russian consoles that connect to the CMS though interface units. The architecture of CMS-17 is a major improvement over legacy Indian developed systems

    A large portion of the communications system, CCS Mk2, is of Indian origin with equipment coming from BEL and elsewhere. A Link 2 datalink is standard equipment.

    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Ships/Active/190-Project-17.html

    Project 11356 Talwar class (Russian CMS)

    Combat Data System: The Trebovaniye-M combat information and control platform is a is a fully distributed combat management system produced by the Meridian Research and Production Enterprise JSC. The system is an advanced up-to-date information acquisition/processing and target designation data transmission facility. It controls all platforms of attack and defence weapons, independently generates combat missions based on situation analysis, determines optimal number of missile firings, displays information on the state of ship-borne weaponry and transmits data to protection systems. It is capable of processing information coming simultaneously from 250 sources.

    Interconnected via an Ethernet LAN, Trebovaniye-M features eight T-171 full-colour operator workstations (with 18-inch colour flat panel displays) and three central T-162 servers. Individual items of combat system equipment interface to Trebovaniye-M via T-119- and T-190-series bus interface units. Raw radar data is received through a T-181 data reception unit. According to the Meridian Research and Production Enterprise, the hardware is based on ruggedised industry-standard processing boards supplied by Octagon Systems. Applications are coded in C++, running under the QNX real-time operating system.

    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Ships/Active/180-Talwar-Class.html

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