😡

Here are few photos:

http://pakmr.blogspot.com/2011/05/pns-alamgir-reaches-jeddah-in-saudi.html

Sadly no Mk.13 launcher or any replacement system…

There are no Alamgir pics on there: the pic in the article on Gulcuk shows the ship with pennent no. 8, i.e. prior to becoming Alamgir. The others are of the transfer ceremony.

No new pic of the ship since here refit…. 😡

we can agree on that then. and that is the old MLP design the new one uses a off the shelf design but the ship pretty much pulls along side a LMSR and the vehicles onboard are offloaded to that then sent ashore by JHSV, LCAC,s and landing barges, or foreign allied craft. Lets also hope they get worthy names too.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/The-US-Navys-Mobile-Landing-Platform-Ships-06525/

Ummm… wrong!!!

Largs Bay is a LSD*, not a LPD… they are two significantly different types of ship, despite the superficial external similarity.

LSD is the abbreviation for Landing Ship, Dock (a cargo/vehicle-emphasized landing ship).

LPD is the abbreviation for Landing Platform, Dock (also called Amphibious Transport, Dock…a troop-emphasized landing ship).

A LSD has about twice the floodable dock space, more vehicle/cargo storage space, and less than half the troop accommodation (usually 1/3 or so) when compared to a similarly-sized LPD.

* The RN designated it LSD(A), indicating that it was an auxiliary LSD (intended for follow-up operations), not a front-line LSD (intended for opposed combat landing operations).

Jajaja, minor issue. I know there are variants emphasizing troop versus cargo/landingcraft variants. But the distinction is besides the point given the remark I was responding to (about RAN not operating of planning an LPD): I don’t think the poster meant to say RAN does operate an LSD.

“The Bay class are based on the Royal Schelde Enforcer design, similar to Dutch HNLMS Rotterdam (L800) and Spanish SPS Galicia (L51) LPDs. They were at first classified as Alternative Landing Ship Logistics (ALSL) However, they have been reclassified as Landing Ship Dock (Auxiliary) (LSD(A)), as they developed into a form very much more like an LSD, with a large flight deck aft and a docking well in the stern capable of operating a LCU Mk 10.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_class_landing_ship_dock

Oh, the helicopter are there, but by designating additional airframes for the Navy it means taking them away from the Army Helicopter units.

Remember, the number of units acquired was purchased based on six (6) going to the navy as a replacement for the (six?) Sea Kings, enough going to the Army to replace the Blackhawks, with the remainder being in deep maintenance.

Stealing airframes from the army just means the fleet wont last as long since their remaining airframes will be worked harder. The RAN obviously specified six airframes for a reason, they have all the data, we don’t.

Balony, I’m not talking about permanently assigning helicopters to an AOR. I’m suggesting to put them there when needed (e.g when ARMY personnel is shipped elswhere in the world and taking its helicopters with them, but which can’t base on LPD)

The Dutch navy has 2 LPDs, each capable of housing 6 NH90 or 4 EH101 or 4 Chinook. It currently has 21 SH-14D Lynx (only 10 still operational thanks to life-prolonging maintenance. This was necessary due to delivery delays of the NH-90. One is currently held by Libyan pro-Qadhafi forces after a failed attempt to rescue two people from Libya on February 27, 2011.) While carrying Koninklijke Marine titles, they actually belong to the Air Force Defensie Helikopter Commando (DHC), or Defence Helicopter Command, since July 4, 2008. It will get 20 NH-90 of which 12 NATO Frigate Helicopter (NFH) and 8 transport version of the NATO Frigate Helicopter (TNFH) (Being introduced until the end of 2015) It has no Chinooks, no SUper Puma’s (but DHC has)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Air_Force#Defence_Helicopter_Command

The U.S. Navy ordered the first two Mobile Landing Platform (MLP) ships.

San Diego Shipyard Gets 2 Ship Orders

Interesting concept

Stealth isn’t just about RCS control, its multi spectral (including the visible spectrum)

Looks like my suggestion re Ocean and its resident Apaches was correct.

They are to be deployed to Libya “within days” according to the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8531704/British-attack-helicopters-to-Libya.html

How often have Apaches been used from a Naval Vessel before on actual live fire operations?

So how well will they do ?

Target rich environment ?

Manpads or larger systems to be concerned about ?

Any Worries about heavy machine guns on the ground ?

Is there sufficient combat search and rescue ?

There must be operational range worries, as Libya is very large and Ocean will still be some way off shore ?

Anything else ?

Unlike US versions, the Westland Apache has been navalised and now serves aboard Royal Navy ships in addition to its land-based role. It achieved maritime certification in December 2005 aboard HMS Ocean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Operational_history

Likewise, US Army Apaches have trained from LHA/LHDs since 2005.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_050201-N-6019M-001_A_U.S._Army_AH-64_Apache_helicopter_prepares_to_launch_from_the_flight_deck_aboard_the_amphibious_assault_ship_USS_Nassau_(LHA_4)_during_Joint_Shipboard_Weapons_and_Ordnance_(JSWORD)_training.jpg

Success depends on many things and can’t well be predicted in advance.

Target richness depends on rules of engagement: what is and is not considered a threat. This may change as we go along.

Heaviers SAM systems are likely already taken out. MANPADS would remain a problem, but the question is which MANPADS (old systems like SA-7 shouldn’t pose problems but new sysems might) and whether ground forces could deploy and target them effectively (i.e. in a concerted manner as opposed to by smll units and individuals acting alone)

Apache is designed to survive hits by 23mm cannon rounds, so I doubt HMGs should be more of a problem than the 23mm (while off course all AAA needs to be taken into account)

I would think Ocean carriers EH101 as well, which UK would presuably use for combat search and rescue (USN would be different matter)

Most of Libya is desert, the fighting takes place along the populated strip along the coast, thus limiting the operational area and range concerns

Allright, what’s done is done indeed 😉

Similar discussion re. Bays for Canadian navy (pre-dating the sale to Australia), linking in with JSS need.
http://www.casr.ca/mp-bay-class-lpda-jss-daly.htm
http://www.casr.ca/bg-navy-jss-joint-support-ship.htm
http://www.casr.ca/bg-navy-sealift.htm

I like the approach that was taken with NUSHIP Sirius. When at some point Success is decommissioned, is that the likely route to be taken for acquisition of a replacement Auxiliary Oiler (AOR) or might we see something like the Dutch Joint Support Ship (JSS) or …