You are mistaken. There was no option of selling “a few dozen new build M2K’s” [sic]. India had not requested it. Dassault offered it,….

Nope not the way it happened. India asked for new build M2K’s, Dassault over-quoted and then tried to up-sell in to the Rafale, and managed to ignite the competitive bid clauses in the process.

The problem was created by them, the IAF would have been happy if Dassault had been satisfied with the sale of a few dozen new build M2Ks.

Don’t feel sorry for yourself or for India, because I certainly don’t have any sympathy for the country. It’s pretty simple, India accepted Dassault’s offer which indicates India were/are fine with the overall deal, or, and… Dassault accepted India’s demands and requirements and price tag and the deal was done which would indicate both sides came to an agreement. It does not indicate no one crapped on or mugged another and besides, two totally different deals.

Au contraire mon ami, I feel bad for Dassault. I’d like the Rafale in IAF colors and they’ve messed it up.

One remembers just before the L1 bidder was announced for the MMRCA, a Dassault Official stated to India that; ‘Select Rafale as L1 now, and we’ll negotiate the terms afterwards.’ (words to that affect). Indian officials accepted, Dassault/France and every other contender knew India’s demands… So whom is to blame for that now that the discussions are seeming to be hitting numerous obstacles?… Dassault made a bold move with that shot, and credits due where its due, it paid off… Maybe India should have looked ahead more, they certainly jumped the gun that time.

No, those were always the terms of the competition, L1 bidder would negotiate terms AFTER being selected. They just need to offer the right terms and prices to the buyer.

No, in the real world, both compromise.

India, with it’s own space programme, still receives aid annually from the UK, that is an indulgence not a necessity. The Rafale on the other hand, as a whole and what potential it brings to India, not just the aircraft but to India’s industry, is quite the opposite. Look at the bigger picture, there are reasons why India want such a huge amounts of an industry boost.

Right now the position is India has stopped compromising, the ball is in Dassault’s court. BTW one of the sticking points is how much technology they will actually transfer and how much they want to send a CKD kits. If Dassault cannot get it act in order these negotiations could drag on forever, until eventually Dassault or India give up on the sale and simply walk away.

Ah – the aid bugbear! I don’t know what it is with you UK’ians and aid to India? First you force it on us and then everyone is upset you give it to us! How droll!

Anyway you’ll be happy to know UK is completely ending its “aid” to India in 2015. Yayyy!

1 Rafale = 2MKI or 4 Tejas. Squadron strength will actually be better if the Rafale is not purchased.

No good – MTCR, cant be sold to India!

IIRC Dassault never even got a reply from India to its offer of the M2K line.

India didn’t want the M2K line, it wanted a few dozen new build M2k’s. Dassault, failed in it’s up-sell, and is failing to convince a customer to buys its goods now. BTW that customer really likes its goods, and despite that they are have failed to close the sale so far.

Its Dassault’s problem to solve, not India’s.

Funny comment, considering that delays are due to Indian process and that it’s mostly from Indian side we see complaints…

One may even wonder, considering where India comes from (russian tech, which, in electronics field had a couple of trains to catch), if India isn’t having these delays simply because nobody overthere can figure out how to manage to absorb French technology, way too advanced for their todays status… maybe they should have bought a mig after all, it would be a nice fit, just above their 60’s vintage Migs 21…

LoL – cannot understand such animosity. It’s as if you own a great number of Dassault shares!

BTW the only complaints from the Indian side is price and work-share. It’s on Dassault to satisfy India on that score, and they will get a signed contract.

I was here too.

You probably also remember the sequence of events prior to this

The IAF wanted the M2K, and enquired about it
Dassault quoted a high price
There was a counter offer and so, and so forth…

Then Dassault said it wanted to close the M2K line and offered the Rafale at a higher price instead of the M2K
India initiated a competitive bidding process as the M2K would no longer be available and procurement rules required a competitive process be initiated
Dassault entered the Rafale instead into the bidding process, and closed the M2K line

It’s on the seller to provide their goods and services at prices the buyer will find attractive. If they want to up-sell they should madke sure they offer it at what feels reasonable to the buyer. They probably thought India was desperate for the M2K or western tech and over-sold it.

They shot themselves in the foot, and now here we are! Too bad!

The Rafale is a good airplane, but not so good that any price can be paid and unreasonable compromises can be made.

Then the whole point about the availability of advanced weapons is lost with low tech weapons, and with an either/or choice the PAK-FA is the better alternative.