SkyboltSkybolt all you say is true (in your original post), but then many people on this forum and those with young families may not be fortunate to have loads of cash spare, as you obviously do having been a former highly paid CAA employee and I guess on a fat cat subsistence as befits pensioners of said organisation. It is that same CAA which charges extortionate fees for staging air shows – which you attend for free, of course. 😉
My goodness another poster ready to be bitten, fantabulous.
As a 69 year old OAP the pension I earned during nearly 14 years with the CAA before retiring in 1998 is about 110% of the state pension so I get around £14,000 a year gross in total from which tax is deducted. Not exactly fat cat. My wife and I subsist but there is not much spare cash at the end of the year. A deficit is quite often the case.
I believe service pensions are rather more generous but I do not have details. No doubt you can assist me here.
The CAA has never staged an airshow. The charges it makes are for the Air Navigation Order Article 80 permission to hold such a show. The government requires the CAA to cover its costs plus a margin it specifies and charges such as you mention are part of that cost recovery. These charges are subject to a consultation process each year where the airshow industry makes its views known.
As for attending shows for free……………!!!!!
Before I retired in 1998 I frequently had to attend airshows as the CAA inspector in order to monitor standards and compliance with CAP403. Being on duty I certainly was not expected to pay to enter.
Since retirement I often attend shows as an ordinary spectator and pay the normal entry charges, occasionally at a reduced rate for an OAP if there is one.
Equally well I am engaged as a participant to fly in quite a number of displays each year where I am paid by the organiser for the act in the same way as all the others who take part.
Finally organisers do ask me to be part of, or even head, their Flying Display Safety Committees occasionally. When that happens they naturally send me entry tickets on a complimentary basis.
Hope that settles your sarcastic spiel………….. it should do………!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
😡
Skyboltdavski/Freebird
I think you are missing the point I was making ( nothing to do with the flying programme at either show)……….At Breighton we were told of the situation as we entered the gate that many of the aircraft were not there and flying would be very limited, were as yesterday nothing was known till we were in that a major part of the flying was missing. No were in any of my posts have I slanted any flying or dispaly, I think you should read them again, My gripe so to speak was the info that was given to the public
My point about comparing the two venues of Breighton and Elvington does give the answer, at least to some extent. The guys on the gate at Breighton are almost certainly volunteers from those enthusiasts whose local airfield is Breighton. In addition the access and volume of traffic means it is far easier to let visitors have last minute details. The same is not in any way true of Elvington where the guys on the gate are sub-contracted from “rent a mob” to carry out the huge task. I doubt if they know anything about aircraft or airshows.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
😉
PS – My posts usually have a bit of “bite” as those who have been bitten in the past will, no doubt, confirm. Thanks for the “grit” comment – after being away from the West Riding for some 62 years the odd trace of Yorkshire grit remains. Long may it be so.
SkyboltSkybolt
I’m sorry that you took my opinion as some kind of personal attack but it is a country of free speech after all.I have been to Elvington many times and I must say its one of the best private museums I’ve been to and airshows BUT I just feel though we were alittle dissapointed with the outcome, surely on the gate we should have been told that alot of aircraft where not coming or there? I went to Brieghton in July when it p i s s e d it down and the communication was much better £16 i Know is not much of an entry fee but when you add petrol and the rest of the family it all adds up. I dont mind paying after all I’ve been to Fairford! and I dont mind the rain, been to Finningley in a September!
I would like your un-offended response to
Why was BBMF only on a Saturday?
Why was Red arrows only on a Saturday?
Where were the RAF? and why arnt they supporting the biggest Airshow in Yorkshire, 1 Tucano aint muchOh by the way I’ll buy you a pint to show you i’m not that stingy;)
Well I do apologise a little for a rather intemperate response to your original post. I had just returned from a wet and dismal, but still highly enjoyable, weekend at the DeHMC annual extravaganza at Woburn and reading your words really lit my blue touch paper…..!!
Free speech yes……….. but perhaps you might complain if one or two words were omitted even if it cost you zilch.
I fully agree with you about the Breighton shows so brilliantly orchestrated by the Real Aeroplane Company. But Breighton is not Elvington. The scale and content is entirely different. Part of the charm is the limited size of the venue which gives a more intimate feeling and one where communication is easier.
I too have been soaked at past Finningley displays both as a spectator and as a participant.
Having been to RIAT I now know you do appreciate that a £16 entry charge is not extortionate.
Now to your current queries –
Why was BBMF only on a Saturday? –
Why was Red Arrows only on a Saturday?
Where were the RAF? and why arnt they supporting the biggest Airshow in Yorkshire, 1 Tucano aint much?
For the answer you must approach those at the MoD that allocate and juggle their limited airshow assets to the various display organisers right round the country and abroad. I am certain that the Elvington organisers will have put their request in on time back in September 2006. No doubt they wanted as much as could be granted by the MoD. Unfortunately this year the assets available are much less than in previous years due, no doubt, to the current overstretch on the RAF and the other armed forces in Iraq and Afganistan. If you only got one Tucano then tough. It will still have been the finest display in a Tucano in the UK in 2007 if the pilot had the right weather to display his talents. Remember Elvington was not the only large airshow last weekend, I understand Eastbourne had 800,000 spectators over the two days at their free show sponsored by the local council as a major tourist attraction. The MoD do consider likely public attendance numbers, among other things, when considering where to send their assets.
Hope that helps to explain the situation. If and when we ever get any hot summer weather this year your offer of a pint might come in handy. I will buy the next round.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:diablo:
SkyboltMy prime memory of this show was not getting paid for my participation in Nord 3202 G-BEFH. Although the show was under the banner of the UK squadron of the, then, Confederate Air Force the organiser was a rogue. He did a bunk with the proceeds during the display on the Sunday and subsequently declared himself bankrupt. Needless to say, those who had provided aircraft to fly in the show got zilch which left a bad taste in my mouth to say the very least. The same was true of all the other participants.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:
SkyboltWell the great British summer struck Woburn this year. It was very wet with occasional poor visibility, at times windy, sometimes very low cloud with some tree tops disappearing from sight on the hills. The weather Gods were not kind. There was a brief improvement on Sunday afternoon during the airshow.
However we had a great time with Moth aficionados from all over the world. Only about 40 aircraft arrived over the three days and a few might well still be there since the weather as I left at 1730 was getting awful again.
Only a couple of the annual awards were made even though the club president Henrietta, the Dowager Duchess of Bedford, was there on Sunday afternoon – looking her usual beautiful self. The numbers of aircraft attending were such as to make it unfair to judge those few that did make it compared with the hordes that did not.
The Sunday afternoon airshow was badly affected since a shed load of aircraft just could not fly in from their bases. We did have –
Dragon and Dragonfly flypast
Dragon Rapide demonstration
Fox Moth and Hornet Moth demonstration
Moth Minor and Leopard Moth demonstration
Miles Messenger demonstration
Tiger Moth diamond four formation
Jackaroo, Chipmunk and Turbulent barnstorming routines including flour bombing, balloon bursting and limbo
Everyone who participated did a great job in entertaining those present.
In the display practice slots on Saturday we had an absolutely magic display by John Beaty in the Seafire XVII and another from the Shuttleworth Westland Lysander.
Stuart, Miranda and Melissa McKay did an excellent job with the organising and administration as did Colin Dodds and Steve LeVien along with so many others including the Mainwaring Volunteer Force and the indefatigable refuelling squad.
No doubt there will be excellent coverage in “The Moth” magazine in a future edition. I did not remember to take any photographs but loads of others did.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
😎
SkyboltI must say after just getting back from Elvington how dissapointed i am, I know the weather is bad but how can they justify £16 per person when all that i saw flying warbird (military aircraft) wise was 2 hunters and a seafire ALL day, I dont mind paying for myself and the family to get in but surely with so much not been there (that was In the programme) why couldnt they have reduced the price a little, Elvington was a cracking show a few years ago, whats happened? and as for saying the Vulcan was going to be there, everyone in the know knew there was no chance so why advertise it?
Well “mosschops” I am sorry you were disappointed BUT –
1. Have you any idea how much a show like Elvington costs to put on? If you had then you would not begrudge paying £16 per person. A figure much lower than many large airshows in southern England as many who post on this forum could confirm.
2. Yes the weather was bad. In fact bloody awful right across the UK this weekend. That would have prevented many aircraft from flying to Elvington since most display aircraft are restricted to flight under visual flight rules. The organiser, though the power of prayer is great, can do nothing about the weather yet he still has to pay the bills.
3. Ken Cothliffe and his enthusiastic band of volunteers have put on some absolutely superb airshows over the years at Elvington. I guarantee they were much more disappointed than you at the weather this year. Yet your post on this thread will have done nothing but increase their personal collective anguish. They put in countless hours of effort over many months to put the show together, all you and the family have to do is attend on the day.
4. The posters and pre-show publicity was arranged and printed long ago when it was expected that the Vulcan would be available for airshow appearences. It is not the show organisers fault that the magnificent VTTS team failed to achieve their stated target dates.
Finally I am a Yorkshireman by birth and we do have a reputation for being a bit tight with the “brass” however I feel that you are not merely tight, but bloody stingey. Perhaps you hail from north of the border.
Stand by for incoming…………………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:
SkyboltRob68,
It is and he is…………………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
🙂
SkyboltRob68,
Some nostalgic photographs that do capture the essence of the Barnstormers type of display. I reckon three of them show me flying G-AIXD in both her colour schemes. The late David Needham is in the Piper L21B Super Cub. A great display pilot who sadly died from cancer a few years ago. His son, Justin, now displays the same aircraft along with a Cessna 0-1 Bird Dog.
Thank you so much for your efforts.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
🙂
SkyboltPerhaps aim the Typhoon’s cannon at them. We cannot afford the ammo so its perfectly safe……………….safe……….safe…..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:diablo:
SkyboltOn a jocular note I am reminded by the thread title of one of Churchill’s famous wartime speeches that inspired this country in its darkest hour.
Sadly I cannot remember the exact words but a section went –
“We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the landing grounds………………… we shall never surrender…!!!!”
Perhaps Biggin Hill in 2007 has become the landing ground Winston thought of in 1940.
Repel the great unwashed, defend our right to our legitimate aviation pastimes.
Aviators arise……………… your passion is threatened.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:diablo:
SkyboltThere are two Flamants at Alencon. One is the transport variant and the other has the crew trainer layout with a glazed nose.
The aircraft are operated by the Amicale Alenconnaise des Avions Anciens which is a group of real aviation enthusiasts. The contact is their president, Alain Odolant, and the address is Aerodrome d’Alencon, 61000 Alencon, France.
They have a website and the URL is – http://www.a3a.org
Be prepared to contact them in English but using the “babel” facility via Google this should not be a problem. Likewise any response can be translated back into English using the same facility.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
🙂
SkyboltRob68,
Your photo shows the Extra EA300 operated by Ultimate High from Kemble aerodrome. It is a highly aerobatic two seater monoplane used for airshows along with advanced training in aerobatics and formation flying. They also provide experience in combat manoevering against another aircraft of the same or dissimilar type. The engine is a Lycoming IO-540 of over 260 hp and the airframe is mainly of composite carbon and glass fibre construction.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
😎
SkyboltWorked a treat this time. Lovely pictures that caught the aircraft well.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
🙂
PS – Have sent you a PM about my airshows at Weston Park in past decades.
SkyboltSome good news for a change.
The BBGA has been making efforts with other organisations to avoid the imposition of a 30p per litre increase in fuel duty following the European Commission decision late last year to end the derogation the UK had previously enjoyed from the EU Energy Directive.
Her Majesties Revenue and Customs has now issued a consultation on the matter and in general the preferred options are in line with the lobbying activity. The position is, for AVGAS, the establishment of a separate line item in the budget for AVGAS separate from leaded motor fuel, which allows duty to be set at the EU minimum rather than at the same rate as for motor fuel. This would result in an approximate increase in duty of 2p per litre rather than 30p.
For JET A1 the situation is a little more complicated but basically the use of JET A1 for “private pleasure” use would require an “honesty declaration” by the user. The description of “private pleasure” may need some work but it already excludes all corporate aviation and flight training.
This is only the consultation so this result is not yet confirmed but I hope this paves the way for a significant victory for BBGA and the other representative bodies involved in avoiding devastating increases in duty for our industry.
Comments you have might have on the consultation should be sent to your own representative association as soon as possible in order to formulate a consolidated industry response.
The consultation can be found at –
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP…E_PROD1_027787
It seems that the response from the PM’s office was less than positive. At least in my own opinion. Now it is up to all of us to support the efforts of our associations.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
🙂
SkyboltRob68,
Your photos come up with the following message –
“current album:Rob1968 bucketsites|buy prints
This file no longer exists”
I will look at my personal airshow data base as soon as I can and let you have the Weston airshow details in terms of aircraft types, registrations and dates. It would be great to get a few photos from those days.
Many thanks,
Trapper 69
🙂
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