LMFSWhat characteristics make the Su-57 capable of STOL?
Does it have thrust reversers? No
Does it have air brakes (outside of control surface deflection like many aircraft)? No
Does it have special braking system? Not specified in any literature.
Does it have the inherent light weight, low landing speed of aircraft meant for rough/short field landings? No.like the adage “any aircraft can be a glider once”, in ideal conditions many aircraft can land on a shorter runway in optimal conditions and light loads. But it’s neither practical, nor practiced.
Are you correcting me, M. Strelets or Sukhoi? I am just transmitting their claims.
Yours are not quite tight either: the plane IS meant for rough field landings, has an over-dimensioned undercarriage and braking system + braking chute + full movable keels as air brake and is designed to have remarkable high AoA / low speed controllability beyond that of the Flankers. If the claim is that Sukhoi is lying, then I think you would need stronger evidence. If it is simply that you don’t know how do they manage the STOL characteristics, then I already submitted my theory on that regard.
LMFS[USER=”143″]eagle[/USER]
Just for sake of being factually correct:
> Su-57 has been explicitly designed as STOL
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/www.sukhoi.org/products/samolety/410/
> Reference to half landing distance of the Su-35 was stated by current chief designer (Mikhail Strelets) at the Zvezda documentary about the Su-57 end of last year.
>Data for the Su-35
from UAC:
TO run@normal weight = 500 m
Landing @normal landing weight with brakes and chute = 750 m
Old KNAAPO booklet referred at Air Power Australia:
| class: table | border: 0 | cellpadding: 2 | cellspacing: 2 | width: 768 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| [TR] | ||||
| [TD=”bgcolor: #666666 | align: left”]Take-off run in “full afterburning” mode with standard take-off weight | m[/TD] | ||
| [TD=”width: 70 | bgcolor: #CCCCCC | align: left”]400-450[/TD] | ||
| [/TR] | ||||
| [TR] | ||||
| [TD=”bgcolor: #666666 | align: left”]Landing roll on concrete runway in braking mode with brake parachute and wheel brakes use | with standard landing weight | m[/TD] | |
| [TD=”width: 70 | bgcolor: #CCCCCC | align: left”]650[/TD] | ||
| [/TR] |
LMFShmmm an estimated 200km range for radar(although not the okhotnik-B they referenced a heavy drone) and the 50-100% increase in detection range next to an SU-57 source. I think this drone differs a little bit from the X-47B and Phantom Ray and that is having an air to air combat role than just only an air to ground combat role. Is this possibility correct? Or I just have to shut up on this board and wait for a month? Probably the last question I will have discussing this drone until a month later :sleeping:
My two cents:
I don’t know what roles the VKS will devise for the Okhotnik, but looking at it the strike-optimized layout is immediately apparent and not different IMO to other UCAVs we have seen:
> Intake at the top of the fuselage is optimized to avoid detection from below (SAMs), not from other fighters
> At the same time, that same air intake position precludes the capacity to execute high AoA manoeuvres, it is not a coincidence that intakes in fighters (even in stealth ones) are at the sides or below the fuselage and not above.
> Due to unavoidable aerodynamic limitations, the plane will probably have high endurance but little speed or agility.
So it is not the substitute of a fighter. But it does not mean it cannot carry some AAMs and support the Su-57 or defend itself in case of need, it should not be that difficult to place two small WBs for MRAAMs at the sides of the main bays for self defence. And specifically carrying LRAAMs as main weapons and penetrating the enemy defences low level to attack AWACS, ISR planes etc. it could actually be pretty useful. In fact, if you look at the size of the weapons placed at the side of the Okhotnik in the satellite view, one of the missiles is like 6 m long. That would mean a very long ranged and powerful A2G weapon, but also potentially an equally powerful LRAAM. With OTH in operation (or targetting passively in case of enemy AWACS), I understand you could create missiles with ranges in excess of 500 km, maybe derived from the ones used in S-400/500, and send all those critical supporting assets far away from the battlefield.
So rather a “flying SAM battery” than a fighter if you ask me xD
LMFSWhich fighter can take off and land on a 300 m strip? With ordnance of course. Answer: none.
The closest to that is the Gripen. It can operate from a 600 m strip, probably not with a heavy load though.
Those are rough figures considered for Su-57. Half lading distance of a Su-35 ca. 375 m, for the Su-35 take-off run at normal TO weight 450-600 m. Maybe I exaggerated a bit, but it does not matter a lot if the run is 400 m instead of 300. The core of the point is that with modern, properly designed fighters you don’t need long runways. And if that was a big problem, springboards would be already available at the air bases.
LMFSF-35B is IMO the most accomplished STOVL fighter ever. But:
> You cannot consider the A or C versions as independent from the B one, since the general layout of the three versions is influenced by the need to have one with STOVL capability. In all variants engine is displaced to the front, elements crowded around the CoG, cross sectional area is huge, weapons bays are suboptimal, weight is very big.
> C version is 2.5 T heavier than the A one, that is a massive 19% increase, due to the basic version being very far from the requirements of naval application. Not every naval plane has such differences with the CTOL version. Wing in particular was not appropriate for the needed approach speed, so it grew substantially, adding drag and weight in big amounts.
> Between C and B versions: C has 47% more fuel, 20% more payload, notably bigger weapon bays and 7% higher overload capability. How this translates into combat effectiveness would be the matter for a discussion of its own I think.
LMFSThere are all kinds of opinions on this topic, but IMHO:
– Ground based STOVL makes little to no sense, now high TWR fighters can take off and land in a mater of 300 m. It is simply impossible to destroy the roads and runways of a country to the extent that not healthy stretch of this length can be found.
– Sea based STOVL makes sense on LHDs only. STOBAR fighters, contrary to widely spread belief, can take off full or almost full weight if they have a decent TWR and good aero design. For A2A roles no restriction, for A2G only on certain cases and specially for militaries like that of the US, where land strike role is a main need. For most countries this is not relevant.
Main advantages of STOVL nowadays:
– Notably boost capabilities of LHDs and similar vessels, so they can operate in a bigger number of scenarios without support of a full-blown carrier.
– Increase the resilience of a carrier regarding the effects that even small damages on the deck would have, essentially rendering it unable to operate its air wing. I (strictly personally) think this could be addressed with newer designs (both of the carrier and of the air wing) where alternative landing trajectories can be used, without the need of developing STOVL planes.
For a manned fighter of the layouts we know, it is unavoidable to pay a serious price in terms of weight, fuel capacity, weapons payload, cost, complexity, reliability and layout (i.e. best place for placement of weapons bays not available due to the lifting HW) by using STOVL. A possibility would be on a unmanned fighter, where the cockpit would be replaced by the vertical lift-generating HW, with very good effects on layout and propulsion and essentially allowing to pay a way smaller price for the STOVL function than when placing these lifting devices close to the CoG of the plane.
So, for a scenario where performance is not critical, a STOVL can make sense (namely LHDs deployed to relatively low-risk areas), for the highest performance required from the naval fighters in charge of defending the fleet from peer rivals, I don’t really see the need for the jump jets.
LMFSI am also surprised that they are going to display it so early, and eager to know what version will we see: the old one that we knew based on pictures, the airframe seen early this year or even a different one? Last satellite pictures showed different paint job but also left me with the doubt of whether the nozzle was the round or the recessed one. Hopefully we get a real model and not a mock-up!
BTW, good news about the Il-112V and composite industry:
Voronezh Il-112V will be easier due to the modernization construction and the widespread introduction of composites
Voronezh. 24.05.2019. ABIREG.RU – being currently Developed units for future Ilyushin Il-112V will be 20-25% lighter applied on the first production batch. Reducing the weight of the aircraft is achieved by optimizing the design, modernization of equipment, and the use of composite materials. Measures to reduce the weight of the aircraft will be implemented in the third and fourth car, which today are placed in the production – said the representative of the Voronezh aircraft factory at a round table in the framework of the XII Voronezh industrial forum.
According to the Deputy technical Director of JSC “VASO” Victor Soloviev, an aircraft factory in conjunction with partners involved in development under the leadership of KB of JSC “Aviation complex. Ilyushin” new designs of components of the aircraft such as wing fairing, flaps, elevators, rudders, landing gear doors, brake pads etc. it would cut the weight of the aircraft as a whole, will be known after the calculations that will produce the design office of JSC “Il”. According to experts, JSC “VASO”, the manufacturing cost of the aircraft Il-112V will not change much.
“The specific gravity of aluminum is 2.7, and composites of 1.5. It tells about the existing provision for reducing the weight of the aircraft. Part of the units will be made of composite materials. We have already developed prototype units for aircraft Il-114-300. This experience will be used for the Il-112. Overall, this work is one of the main activities of the Voronezh aircraft factory at the moment – explained the Deputy technical Director of JSC “VASO”. – By themselves, the composites are slightly more expensive than aluminium, but give a significant gain in weight, their application provides an additional economic effect due to the cheaper manufacturing techniques and reducing the complexity”.
According to the Director of the Center for testing and certification of the Voronezh aviation cluster (JSC “CIS HAC”) Alexis Rhodes, the return of the JSC “VASO” leading position in the field of composite materials, should help the Voronezh formation of a composite cluster.
“The Voronezh aviation plant with the participation of VSTU was created technological area, allowing to produce a wide range of composite materials. With government support established laboratory equipped with modern testing equipment. In the case of effective interaction of the plant and of the University, this equipment will help address a range of issues in the field of composites for transport aircraft, – says Alexey Rhodes. – “VASO” has been a leader in this field, but then partially positions were lost. Now have the opportunity to recover them”.
As the head, the result of the round table “New materials. The modern state, directions and prospects of development of the industry of composite materials”, was an agreement on the resumption of operation of the plant and of the University. This division of the Voronezh aircraft factory engages in the work of the composite cluster. Also during the round table participants spoke about co-mentoring.
PJSC “VASO” today, manufactures composites for the aircraft Il-96-300, and it is about 4.5 tons of products on one machine. Also on the Voronezh aircraft factory manufactured parts and components from composite materials for aircraft SSJ-100, being developed composite components for the Il-112V and Il-114-300. Among the mastered units of the PCM – composite nacelles (cowlings of the engines) for the aircraft Il-96, Il-76, An-148.
At the moment, together with the partners of JSC “VASO” under the leadership of KB “Il” managed to master the full cycle of production of aggregates from composite materials: from development of design and production preparation, to produce pilot units and conduct their tests.
As noted at the round table the General Director of JSC “Inuit” Victor Avdeev, in the framework of the national project “Science” in the country opens broad prospects for the development of composite industries, including in Voronezh.
“At the meeting, the Chairman of the Council on priority area of the Strategy of scientific and technological development of the Russian Federation Igor kalyaeva and MSU rector Viktor Sadovnichy, it was decided that MSU will initiate an integrated scientific-technological program “New composite materials: design technology and production.” I am the co-chair of the interagency working group in this area. We form teams of experts from tech companies, and different branches of science. The development of composite materials is planned in the framework of scientific and technological valley Vorobyovy Gory and in the framework of the “Composite valley” in the Tula region”, – said the General Director of JSC “Inuit”.
According to Victor Avdeev, “Composite valley” will become the ground, which will allow you to quickly and successfully move from research to the creation of pilot production. Also in the framework of the established infrastructure it is planned to organize certification center materials standards of the leading manufacturers in the aerospace industry, not only by domestic Standards but also the standards of Europe and the United States.” The roundtable participants noted that currently, market participants composite materials offer excellent opportunities to enjoy the support of the state.
LMFSRussia to unveil strike drone at Army-2019 defense exhibition
The drone’s mockup model was created in 2014
MOSCOW, May 27. /TASS/. Russia will demonstrate its most advanced Okhotnik (Hunter) heavy strike drone for the first time at the Army-2019 defense exhibition, the Defense Ministry’s press office reported on Monday.
The drone will be on display on the open site of the ‘Patriot’ Congress and Exhibition Center, the statement says.
“The exposition of the most advanced and promising items of armament, military and special hardware on the open site of the ‘Patriot’ Congress and Exhibition Center has been increased twofold. The exposition will feature the Okhotnik UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle],” the ministry said.
As two sources in the aircraft-building industry told TASS earlier, the Russian-made Okhotnik heavy attack drone based on the stealth technology took to the skies for the first time in early spring after performing the so-called jumps over the runway for several weeks. The drone would speed up along the runway, climb several meters and then immediately make a landing, stopping at the end of the strip. The drone performed all the operations autonomously.
Although the drone would take off during the trials, these tests were not full-fledged flights and only preceded them, the sources noted.
A contract on developing the Okhotnik heavy strike drone was signed in 2011 between the Sukhoi Aircraft Company and Russia’s Defense Ministry. The drone’s mockup model was created in 2014.
LMFSAre we not forgetting that the missile itself needs either to emit or receive friendly guidance to find the target? Why are you supposing the onus of active detection on the plane only? Normally it would be its ESM that would pick up the data link to the missile in the first place (it would happen to be radiated at least broadly in its direction in most engagement geometries) and in the end game the active seeker of the missile, without any need of going active.
LMFSI am assuming the Okhotnic-B is going to have a LTCC based radar and since its considered a heavy drone its going to have a range of 200kms. I think that the Okhotnik-B is going to be a very slow process. They stated 3-5 years mass production of FICs will begin back in their latest magazine and since they said several years back in this 2018 tass report I am assuming the drone can have a ROFAR replacement by 2025 as a prototype being tested. So do you have an agreement that the radar being tested right now is LTCC based or is this the only lead we have?
I would lie if I say that I am knowledgeable enough to have an opinion on that, but I will check that source you posted and humbly give my conclusions if any, it looks definitely rich in information.
Having said that, the reference to a UAV in the Pazhotron article does not necessarily mean Okhotnik, since Sukhoi is working with Tikhomirov for the radar of he Su-57 and it would only make sense to continue that in the S-70.
The TASS link related to ROFAR points out nevertheless to its early stage of development: they still need to actually build the thing (a demonstrator) itself, including all the elements, and only then will they start understanding how a real, serial device should work. This represents a very early phase as far as I can see.
LMFSDo note that there are two smaller drones parked to the left of the Okhotnik too. Orion is the top one, I guess, going by the size and the seemingly grey color. The white one closest to Okhotnik is too small to be Altius though.
Good find, those should be Orion and Korsar
LMFSDidn’t the Russian land the Buran Space shuttle unmanned decades ago?
I meant the automated execution of such tasks is relevant for the program since it means the “brains” of the plane exist and are operational to a certain degree. Automated landing in general is not a breakthrough development though.
LMFSGood news lmfs now we will have to await the full flight, avionics test(in 3 months i hope they talk about its avionics at the maks airshow) than eventually the weapons test but i hope the time length is not that far for each tests.
Important is that all the tests like taxing, take off, jumps and brake before end of the runway were reportedly executed on autonomous mode. The avionics are being tested on the Su-57 so those checks are already ongoing
LMFSSources: Russian stealth UAV “Hunter” for the first time rose into the air
The plane in the early spring for the first time made full boost and pulled away from the runway of the Novosibirsk aircraft plant, the exact date of the planned first flight is not yet known
MOSCOW, may 25. /TASS/. Russian heavy shock UAV “Hunter”, executed with application of technology “stealth” at the beginning of spring for the first time rose into the air from the runway of the Novosibirsk aviation plant. Chkalov. This was reported by TASS two sources in the aircraft manufacturing industry, noting that trials are not flying.
The “hunter” in early spring for the first time made full boost and pulled away from the runway of the Novosibirsk aircraft plant. The machine rose into the air to a height of several meters, making the so-called jump, then immediately landed”, – said one of interlocutors of the Agency.
Another industry source said to TASS, that the tests “are not full flight, but only precede it and the need for a final check of the aerodynamics of the car, its handling and the on-Board systems”. He added that in a few weeks, a series of “hops” a “Hunter”. “With all of the unmanned aircraft, including taxiing, takeoff, set the speed, jump into the air, landing and stopping at the end of the runway, was done “Hunter” offline”, – said the source.
The sources did not name the exact dates of past tests as well as the date of planned first flight of the “Hunter”.
In the United aircraft Corporation declined to comment on the TASS provided sources of information.
Open data, “Hunter” is made with application of technology “stealth” (reduced radar signature) on the scheme “flying wing”, take-off weight of the machine is 20 tons, the drone has a jet engine and can reach speeds in flight up to 1000 km/h. Contract on development of “the Hunter” was signed between the defense Ministry and the company “Dry” in 2011. The first model of this aircraft for ground testing was created in 2014.
As previously reported by TASS, in November 2018, a “Hunter” for the first time made a run down the runway of the Novosibirsk avivoca, speeding on the ground up to a speed of 200 km/h. testing of the drone involved a specialized fighter-laboratory su-57, which worked through the on-Board equipment “the Hunter” in flight.
LMFS35 SRH preparatory work has begun on creating a drydock for the “Admiral Kuznetsov”
Specialists of the Center of ship repair “Zvezdochka” continue preparation of technical documentation for enterprises of dry docks of the 35th shipyard. There in 2020, will begin dock repairs heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser project 11435 “Admiral Kuznetsov”. About it Mil.FlotProm Press reported on the “star”.
Relevant work started at the beginning of the year, but information has not been disclosed.
The new facility will allow for the docking of the same types of surface ships and submarines that sank floating dock PD-50, said the publication of an informed industry source. He added that a project to unite the docks prepared in early 2010-ies, but then his incarnation is not found money.
Heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser “Admiral Kuznetsov” will give the Russian Navy, as planned, in 2021, but can be delayed for three to four months. This 19 March 2019 , said the President of the United shipbuilding Corporation Alexey Rakhmanov.
October 30, 2018 in the derivation of “Admiral Kuznetsov” of the floating dock PD-50 in the 82nd ship repair plant (belongs “Rosneft”) there was an emergency situation, which resulted in the dock sank. One of his cranes fell to the deck of the cruiser. The vehicle after the incident was towed to the territory of the 35th shipyard.
Then in the United shipbuilding Corporation claimed that the incident with the floating dock will not affect the completion date of the repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft carrier “Admiral Kuznetsov”.
Later it turned out that as a result of emergency, the cruiser received 52 damage. According to OSK, the elimination of these effects will cost about 70 million rubles.
Length of a heavy aviabearing cruiser “Admiral Kuznetsov” (project 11435) – 306 metres, the maximum width is 72 meters, full displacement is 59 000 tonnes. The contract to repair and upgrade the ship, entered service in 1990, signed in April 2018. It performs the 35th FSA. The cost of the works is 60 billion rubles.
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