Gentlemen,

We are assisting to the creation and deployment of (arguably) the first 5G+ air superiority platform, with big consequences in terms of military procurement and balance of power for the main world blocks, while our discussion revolves around phony MSM talking points. Is the Su-57 a “true” 5G fighter? Is it stealthier than a Eurofighter? Didn’t Borisov say it is not better than a Su-35? Will it ever be built in “substantial numbers”? Sorry, but this is nothing but gossip.

At this point in time, the qualities, meaning and (very ambitious) approach of the Russian military and Sukhoi to the program are more than available for any attentive and honest observer to see. Let us please try to raise the level of the discussion above ground level instead of being nothing more than an echo chamber of media drivel, could we?

IMO the creation of the Su-57, at least in the terms in which Russia portraits it, means a breakthrough in the development line of the 5G that leads the way to the future of air superiority platforms. We would be talking about the first platform with long range, big payload, high manoeuvrability and outstanding kinematics coupled with low observability, comprehensive sensor / defensive suites, innovative weapons and information management. These are the very characteristics that are being discussed for the next generation, only being made available now (to what extent is a matter of discussion of course). And this means capability gaps are created and adjustment measures are needed by global players. They are happening before our eyes but we are missing them to a great extent, lost in discussions that go nowhere.

Couldn’t we focus a bit on the big picture instead of allowing propaganda to steal the discussion? We are supposed to know better.

Thanks

Below the first basic set of data for the F-35A, feedback is welcome!

EDIT: forgot to say that the values I consider the most reliable or close to reality are the ones in bold letters, would be good to have your opinions on those.

[USER=”7524″]paralay[/USER] : I took your cross sectional area estimation, hope it is ok for you.

[USER=”20936″]SpudmanWP[/USER], [USER=”40269″]FBW[/USER]

Many thanks.

I have found 2018 product cards of the engines and it is true, the -600 version is now listed as 41k compared to -100 and -400 at 43k. I will disregard the fast facts then and go mainly to the congress reports and product cards from P&W where applicable.

I will submit the data I gathered shortly, would be great if you and/or some other posters with interest could take a look at it to point out errors or further possible values and maybe complete other data of interest. I think a data set considered reliable by the community can be a good starting point for any discussion in the forum.

You know you will very often see 10ths of g of dirrerence between same types? (e.g. paint weight etc.)

Tens of grams is not what concerns me xD
I assume official weights refers to new planes painted and finished at the factory according to a given standard. Of course there are fluids, ammo, weight of the pilot and all that, but I am referring to standard, official data that should be more or less constant, if only because of laziness to update data…

Generally speaing F-35.com as it is owned by lockheed i think.I would be interested by the lastest facst facts in finnish. Howeber, as eery coporate website, they will present you everything as rosy.

Empty weights as given in the last fact facts sheet are (versions A/B/C compared to values in Wiki)

13300 (+150 kg) / 14700 / 15800 (+115 kg)

Internal fuel values also have +/- 100 kg difference with Wiki values, but they dont seem to indicate any clear trend towards over or underestimation. Same goes for weapons payload.

For the engine, the values stated in the sheet are the following (vs. P&W product card for the -600 version)

Dry 11340 kgf (120.1 kN = 12247 kgf)
Wet 18150 kg (182.4 kN = 18600 kgf)

The dry thrust is notably smaller here (almost 1 Tf), are these maybe installed vs. stand values?

Knowledgeable people (possibly insiders) in other forums were pointing out these values to be 128.1(13062 kgf) and 191.3 kN (19507 kgf) respectively. Could be a case of different types of measures (“special conditions” vs official maximum), or US seriously sandbagging or alternatively “leaking” internally exaggerated values, who knows.

So, are the values at the fact sheets the official ones for the plane, and if yes, are they the same for the domestic and export versions? I know this is the case for the Russian planes but was not aware about such policies being implemented in F-35 program.

Reading the last couple of pages of this thread. WOW. Time to say goodbye to this forum for good till such time that there is some modicum of moderation.

Sad to hear that, you will be missed

Russia developing most advanced long-range radar aircraft, says chief designer

Chief Designer of Vega Group Vladimir Verba said that in principle, “it will take at least ten years for any country to implement such a program”

MOSCOW, May 30. /TASS/. Russia is a leader in developing strategic long-range radar aircraft, Holder of the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Academician Alexander Raspletin Award, Chief Designer of Vega Group, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Vladimir Verba told TASS on Thursday.
“No state in the world has set a task before industry to create a new generation of strategic long-range radar aircraft. In principle, it will take at least ten years for any country to implement such a program,” the chief designer said.
“The basic efforts of our foreign counterparts are focused on modernizing existing and adjusting available technologies for lighter carriers of radar systems. Meanwhile, we have already fulfilled the modernization task and have made the best use of the A-50 platform, upgrading it to the level of the A-50U and already six planes have started to accomplish missions for Russia’s Aerospace Force. That is, we are a priori leaders in this area,” he noted.
The scientist received the award for a cycle of scientific works on substantiating the areas of developing and the principles of constructing and operating a new-generation multiservice airborne platform of radar surveillance and guidance as an information and control system. The A-100 Premier multirole radar surveillance and guidance aircraft platform developed by Vega Group is at the initial stage of its trials.
“We still have to go through a laborious and lengthy process of confirming operational characteristics set by the specifications and testing the system’s interaction with other resources and capabilities of Russia’s Aerospace Force in various theaters of operations. This is multi-factor and large-scale work with great variation in the time frame of achieving interim results. I am confident in one thing: the work will be completed in compliance with the schedule agreed with the customer,” the scientist stressed.

More:
http://tass.com/science/1060917

The superiority of the Russian planes in the air will provide modernized R-27

Missiles “air-air” R-27 will have a second life. This weapon was designed to destroy manned aircraft combat maneuvering and is seriously outdated. Therefore, recently, the rocket was modified with the use of modern technology, becoming a versatile high-precision medium-range weapons. Now, the R-27 is capable of hitting difficult targets, including cruise missiles, drones and aircraft of the fifth generation. Its application will allow Russian fighter superiority in dueling battles, experts believe. The first production batch of upgraded missiles will go into service, the aerospace forces by the end of this year, told “Izvestia” several sources in the defense Ministry. The first samples of the upgraded missiles were tested during operation in Syria on the su-30CM and su-35. The main modern aircraft-carriers of the R-27 will these winged cars. They also can be used on su-27, su-33, su-34 and MiG-29, the sources in the defense Ministry.
Once the R-27 was ahead of its time, has declared “news” the former commander of the 4th army of VVS and PVO, Hero of Russia, Lieutenant-General Valery Gorbenko. That is why the missile remains in service.
— It contains good potential, the rocket’s successful design, the warhead is triggered reliably. The homing head can be modified to meet modern technology, which will significantly improve the accuracy. And after increasing the intensity of the launch, it will be dalnoboynie — said Valery Gorbenko.
The rocket will be an updated system for management and guidance. Modern electronics greatly facilitates the aiming, allowing the pilot to pay more attention to piloting the plane. The guidance is performed in automatic mode the radio emission. Provided and semiautomatic mode — in this case, the pilot will mark the target.
In addition, for the missile developed a new propellant charge that will give ammunition increased energy. Upgraded R-27 will be able to shoot down cruise missiles and aircraft of the fifth generation.
The modernization will take place and rockets series, R-27P and R-27R — they are designed to destroy air targets at any time of the day or night in adverse weather conditions. They can be used during air combat, when an enemy aircraft maneuvers and puts active interference with the radar, covering thereby their actions. R-27R — medium-range missile with control system of the inertial type. The guidance system includes a semi-active radar unit is activated at the finish of the flight.
Homing R-27П1 involves the combination of active radar and inertial system correction. These nodes are alternately activated depending on the phase of flight. Targeting the missile receives radar of the carrier aircraft or ground radar. The control system operates on the principle of “launch and forget” ensuring information secrecy attack.
The length of the missiles exceeds 4700 mm, the starting weight up to 350 kg, equipped with a solid engine and a high-explosive warhead with 39 kg of explosive. The maximum launch range is 110 km.
— VC will get a large number of upgraded missiles “air-air” for a short time, — told “Izvestia” military expert Anton Lavrov. — R-27 is the main missile of the Russian aircraft, at the time they produced a large number. Modern technologies allow to improve the missile and make it an effective means of destruction.
Thanks to its design features, the R-27 is significantly superior to the characteristics of the American guided missile AIM-7 Sparrow and comparable flight parameters with the latest models of reactive munitions AIM-120C.

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/iz.ru/882783/aleksei-kozachenko-aleksei-ramm/v-boi-idut-stariki-istrebiteli-vooruzhat-raketami-dlia-duelei