Location of FW190s
Well based on the fact that the trees behind the FW190s are of a species…. 😀
Nah just kidding…however I would guess based on the fact that the FW 190s appear to be operating from what looks to be some sort of temporary field / or a field close to the front line and considering that in Western Europe I would assume that they would more likely operate from a more established base with hangars etc…..I would guess Eastern Front somewhere. Nothing distinctive on the FW190s that a Luftwaffe expert can use to give us more info??
Very cool pics by the way – love the FW 190. Any colour pics of a Dora-9 or better still a Ta-152?
Interesting choices
Hmmmm
The MB 152 is an interesting choice…I was under the impression that they suffered a lot of engine problems and this affected their availability…
Personally, if I was to pick a French a/c I would have gone for the D520, no particular reason other than that I like the way it looks…maybe I should look up its service history….
BTW, this was a great idea for a thread..thanks Dmitri
Air Sea Rescue
I don’t know if Belgium would have had an ASR component in 1940, but if I was to go for a flying boat option – maybe three or four of the Dornier flying boats (Do 24?)? They just strike me as more useful than the Walrus.
Also, in the later years the Vickers Warwick (did I get that right) which as basically a Wellington follow-on was fitted with an air-droppable lifeboat. So perhaps you could convert one or two of the wellingtons.
Belgian AF take two
Ok
Revisit based on a realistic view of budgets and purchasing habits and using Dmitri’s ORBAT (thanks for that) – here is probably what I could get away with in terms of pleasing the bean counters – rather than what I would get in an ideal world
Fighters – approx 80 Hurri I – realistically there is little chance of Belgium being able to purchase either 109E or Spit I based on financial and production constraints.
MR/ASW/ASuW – Wellingtons (Sunderland / Lib overkill IMHO) 8 – 12
Light Bombers / Light Strike – Blenheims 36 – 48
Recon – Blenheims (see above)
Liaison – Storch 12-18
Training – Tiger Moth & Harvards
Transport – Ju52 – simply because there is no competition until C-47 becomes available 12
On order : Spit I (replace some or all of Hurris)
Mosquito (For Fighter Bomber / Recon to replace Blenheims)
C-47 (replace Ju-52)
Belgian AF 1940
Ok
I am at work…so I don’t really have the resources or the time to check the Belgian AF ORBAT..but here goes a flier….
Front Line Fighter (3/4 squadrons approx 120 a/c) – Bf109E – in a defensive role their short range should not be felt so badly – better armament than a Spit I or a Hurri I.
Transport – Ju52 – don’t know if C-47 was available in big enough quantities in 1940
Recon – Ju86P – converted airliner used as recon by Luftwaffe (have I got the designation right?)
Fighter-Bomber – 2/3 Squadrons Hurri I or Po1-16 (cannon armed variant)(assuming USSR a/c available) – might lean to Hurri I for simply better spares availability
Light Bomber – Not a lot of choice off the top of my head, but I would say one or two squadrons (say aprox 50) Blenheim with say a squadron of Ju87 – for light strike role.
Liaison / Army Co-op – Fieseler Storch
As i am writing this I see one or two problems – mix is too diverse and might cause a logistical problem- perhaps a better combo would be Spit/Hurri for fighters – on the grounds of engine commonality, but I would say that Belgium would have a far better chance of having 120 109E in terms of production availability
Oh, well let me get back to work….
Att: DGH
Hi DGH
Spoke to Thunder City this morning, apparently the F6 is now scheduled to fly 6,7,8 April – the person I spoke to could not confirm if this meant one flight per day or first flight on one of those days…..
Apparently, I will be able to confirm on Monday.
I am hoping to convince Mrs Kukri to go on a tour of T/City on Sunday and I will hopefully be able to get better gen then.
Finger trouble
Correct previous post – subject should be Lightning F6
Lightning T6
Do we have any more info regarding the time of the flight – as well as where the flight will be heading? I am just down the road from Thunder City , and wouldn’t mind seeing it…
Or duh…maybe I could just phone them and ask…..:)
Getting tired of being argumenative
Ok Steve
I surrender 🙂 . All your points make sense – however I have one last question to the forum – Is there anyone who can tell me conclusively whether or not Arg A-4 drivers got any ACM training? I don’t know much about modern air force training regimes, but wouldn’t they have gotten at least some basic training in ACM, given the Scooter’s abilities – also would they not have used the A-4s for CAP (even guns-only) for the Veinticinco De Mayo? Or would they have relied on the Arg Air Force to protect the carrier?
Still being argumentative
Hi Steve
Ok, all of your points seem valid (based on my limited knowledge of such things )as was Buff’s
So, if I combine the posts from you and buff..essentialy the view of Argentine Air Command was : ‘We can’t take on the SHARs in A2A without taking heavy losses. Let’s just ignore them and hope they go away without taking too much of our strike force with them’?
Personally, as an armchair air force commander with 20/20 hindsight 🙂 I would have though that a better view would have been to try and create situations where they could have drawn SHARs into air combat against the MIII in situations favourable (or at least, less unfavourable) for the Args. To just sit and passively make no attempt to remove the SHARs is just plain dumb isn’t it?
After all, there were a limited number of SHARs and pilots on board Hermes and Invincible, with replacement a/c very far away. Even at a 3:1 exchange ratio, would it not (from a High Command POV not Joe Soap in the cockpit POV) have been worth it?
Ok….
Thanks Buff
All valid points, but surely it would have been worth a try. The little bit of info I have found seems to indicate that even when they did launch Air Sup sorties they weren’t too eager to press them home – which makes sense in terms of their fuel load as stated by you above.
But what about the A-4’s? They had enough fuel to reach the British ships carrying a load of bombs. Replace these bombs with drop tanks and the A-4 I would think would be an ideal opponent for the SHARs. Even if they didn’t have the -9Ls they would have had the advantage of superior numbers and could have attrited the SHARs out of the game.
Granted they would still have had to get past Sea Dart and Sea Wolf systems, but lack of CAP SHARs would have been an advantage.
Also I have read in “A Hundred Days” that the SHARs initially operated at quite a distance from the carriers to improve their response time (primarily due, I Think, to a lack of AEW).
Yes I know I am being argumentative, but it’s a slow day at the office:cool:
Those who made it
Yup quite a mixing pot – but then I think that would be representative of the RAF in general in those days – must be some sort of record – number of different nationalities in a single branch of armed services.
Also, three escapees made it to the UK – two Norweigians and one Dutch (possibly due to a better ability to pass as a “native”?).
I missed the news last night – do we know if any of the news services have picked up on the anniversary? Here in SA, I am willing to bet that no-one under the age of 30 knows or for that matter cares…sad really.
I think I am going to check with the local SAAF museum, and see if they’re doing anything.
Great Escape—-of course
Duh! Thanks JDK…not ignorant but definitely forgetful on my part..in my defence it’s probably been at least ten years since I last read the book…hmmm, I wonder if I can still find it….
Truly a horrible aftermath, a pity that so many of the culprits escaped their just desserts.
PS as per your “by-country” breakdown earlier – I count 3 South Africans – Gouws, Stevens and McGarr – sigh- my wife doesn’t call me a master nitpicker for nothing.
More details?
With the certainty of appearing ignorant…
Can anyone give me any additional detail as to why these aircrew were executed (based on the info I would guess that they escaped from a POW camp) but was execution the normal end result if recaptured?
Also, something at the back of my mind keep stelling me that I should know about the escape attempt – was it a farily well-known escape? Did any of the escapees evade capture?
Originally posted by GarryB
Not exactly amazing, though I have heard reports that South African pilots flying Mig-23s stated that the gun was particularly accurate and they quite liked it.
Hi garry
Can you perhaps give me some more info regarding how these SA pilots happened to be flying the MiG-23? E.g. were they captured/defected examples, or were the SA pilots mercenaries flying for a nation that operates the MiG-23?
Cheers
K