Concur with WJ244, Mike. Bill, yourself and the rest of the K7 team have carried out one of the most fantastic restorations one could see.
Two crucial pieces of information though. Height over the top of approx 2,600 ft at an IAS of 100 kts.
There are two other facts as well, the minimum heights of his DA ” to display the Hawker Hunter to a minimum height of 100 ft during flypasts and 500 ft during
Standard 3 category aerobatic manoeuvres.”
Seems the camera at the rear of the cockpit has given some very useful information to the AAIB too.
I have seen some total rubbish posted on various forums and in the media about Saturday and on both sides of the fence of the “Restrictions” Debate. I was surprised that the CAA have the put a total ban on Hunter flying while Gnat operating was allowed to continue post that accident, but it is their call. I just hope that the Safety Directive is withdrawn in due course after the investigation and CAA review and is not a long drawn out affair. The AAIB will investigate and their report will be comprehensive as we all know, however only one person knows exactly what happened, if anything failed on the aircraft exactly and when or just had a bad day in the office. One hopes he will make as full a recovery as possible. One blog by the editor of UKAR did **** me off with his statement “A true case of everyone being in the wrong place at the wrong time”. One of his rants on the CAA decision. Sorry, only one person was in the wrong place IMHO. Reasons for that to be investigated by professionals.
I may be wrong but I understood that the CAA display rules do not permit “passengers” on display flights so any civilian operated fast jet participating in a display is only permitted to have the pilot on board but I presume that there must be provision for other crew members to be onboard provided they are essential for the safe operation of the aircraft.
If any aircraft has a major mechanical failure during a display run I would have thought the chances of a safe return to the airfield would be low regardless of height unless the display run was carried out at a height where spectators would need binoculars to see the aircraft at all. I believe the best option is usually to find a piece of open ground to effect a forced landing and all pilots are trained in forced landing procedures from PPL stage upwards. There will also be instances where some types of mechanical failure will render an aircraft uncontrollable or ony partly controllable which is exactly the reason why display pilots are not allowed to fly towards or over the crowd.
Unfortunately there will be instances where, for all sorts of reasons, recovery will be impossible regardless of the altitude available.
It may be possible to make a best guess as to where an aircraft may end up but as they operate in 3 dimensions it is impossible to cover evey possible scenario. There is only one way to make an aeroplane almost completely safe and that is to leave it on the ground and even then it could catch fire, taxy into something or even hit something whilst being towed.
Modern airshows in the UK probably have the most stringent operating rules ever and for the most part they seem to work very well but by the law of averages things will always go wrong occassionally and no risk assessment can cover every eventuality. There must be a significantly higher, more diverse, number of vintage/classic aeroplanes operating now than in the 1970’s but we have far fewer serious accidents and far better support services available to ensure high standards of repair and maintenance. What we do have is a far more comprehensive media coverage so that far more people are aware of evey incident. No one could possibly have predicted this accident or that which befell the Gnat Team. Both aircraft were owned and operated by responsible organisations and at the end of the day the owners wouldn’t have put a pilot in charge if they didn’t feel he was competent and while some pilots may be prepared to fly more challenging aircraft I am sure none of them would contemplate flying anything that they believed was likely to cause them or anyone else any harm.
Given time we will have an AAIB report that gives the cause of the accident and I expect that the CAA will, quite rightly, review operating procedures for airshows.
CAP 632 tells you the CAA requirements on operating PtF Ex Military Jets. It is comprehensive on what and how private operators have to and are expected to do to operate ex military FJs.. It even mentions about forced landings too.
Whilst we might wish for the status quo to remain the same – the fact is that every aircraft insurance company will be following the events of the weekend in minute detail .
Much as we like to point to the safety record of British air diplays -the insurers will look at the ‘now’ rather than the past and has been pointed out the Hunter in civil hands both in this country and abroad is having an accident rate far higher than it deserves . Insuring high performance jets in future might well become more problematical.
Excellent post David.
A point that has not been mentioned (had crossed my mind) and a very valid one. Insurance companies can quiet happily say “Sorry we are no longer in the business of insuring third party aspects” or hiking up the premiums. Possibly a bigger show stopper to such flying than any CAA regulation change.
Define:
‘The need for change’.
Does one accident in 62 years imply such? Genuine question.
Bruce
Two fatal accidents in four weeks involving intermediate complexity ex military fast jets does tend to raise eyebrows, certainly if third party fatalities occur.
An expert view that I would not disagree with.
Like most people, I am appalled by this shocking accident, and the human suffering it has brought about.
This is a watershed event, the first UK spectator/civilian airshow fatalities since the DH110 disaster at Farnborough in 1952.
So soon after the Gnat crash, this is time to take stock, and get a grip on the situation. I would be pleased to see a (temporary ) moratorium on vintage jet aerobatics and aggressive manoeuvres (including the Vulcan) until we have some perspective and public confidence in the situation.
Expect calls for more draconian and sweeping measures from various quarters. What a dreadful day.
The AAIB will report their findings on both the Intermediate ex military PtF aircraft accidents that have happened recently and I am sure the CAA will review their authorisation criteria for organisations operating PtF ex military jets on PDA’s accordingly if they feel changes must be made. These are civilian owned and operated aircraft.
I am not a fast jet pilot, but was a fast jet engineer (and am a civvy LAE now). I do however have friends that know the pilot concerned. Thanks to the moderators for sharing my views.
Do we really need to see pictures of people dying Moderators?
Edit, no we don’t – above post deleted
Rest in peace Les, a very brave man like all the others who served in Bomber Command during 39 to 45.
For me seeing them practising and displaying here at Duxford was always a high point of any day, and I’m really hoping the team can find the strength and courage to continue with their unique and much admired displays with the Gnat. What a fitting and lasting tribute that would be!
My sincere condolences and sympathy to the pilots family and everyone connected to the team.
Rob
Such accidents can happen to the best professional display pilots (Air Forces etc), so unfortunately if displaying a FJ, there will always be risks. All the professionals that have flown the Gnat say it has typical swept wing handling characteristics that can bite if the mark is overstepped. Unfortunately perhaps, the team is a private venture with intermediate PtF aircraft and pilots who have day jobs not in the cockpit of an aircraft. The AAIB report will find out hopefully the circumstances and hopefully the CAA will see fit to award PDA in the future, if the team wish to continue.
Hi All,
Very sad day today just shows that although the pilots fly with great expertise accidents can still happen to the elite of pilots RIP Kevin Whyman.Geoff.
Condolences to Kevin’s family, friends (some mutual) and the Gnats display team.
News now reporting that the two air ambulances have left the scene. Spectators report that the aircraft was inverted when it crashed which is not very reassuring.
Video is online. Aircraft departed from controlled flight. Sad day indeed.