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kato

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Viewing 8 posts - 136 through 143 (of 143 total)
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  • in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077303
    kato
    Participant

    The portfolio is not mandated by what the export customers want, but what they might want, once you prod them in the right direction.

    A well-rounded portfolio, in particular in the strong points of export (frigates, submarines) is seen as necessary to compete – hence the F125 is in.
    Putting the F125 design into the portfolio isn’t a compromise by the German Navy, it would be a compromise for a prospective buyer. Much like with a F124.

    If you have an organic shipbuilding industry, you rarely if ever do “compromises”, internationally. You don’t select your ships from the portfolio of your industry anyway (unless you’re short of cash) – instead you go and hand em a 1000+ page requirements draft.

    Or do you see e.g. the Type 45, LCS or FREMM being designed based on their export chances?

    in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077322
    kato
    Participant

    Yes that is the point, thankyou for pointlessly repeating it with far more information than was actually required.:rolleyes:

    You miss the point somewhat. F125 is the only ship that TKMS can offer (in that size class) as a MIO/surveillance/land-attack multi-role ship with organic naval infantry and SF support, and the only ship in the TKMS portfolio optimized for extremely high mission times (2 years in-theater, 210+ days at sea per year).
    Neither Meko-D nor Meko-X offer similar capabilities in those fields, they’re paper exercises for “conventional” warfare.

    in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077340
    kato
    Participant

    Thus there is no need to compromise the needs of the German navy in order to satisfy the fantasies of internet fanboys.

    The point is that Germany itself doesn’t use the MEKO line. German ships (F123, F124, F125, K130) are customized ships derived from MEKO and using MEKO technology, but never themselves part of the MEKO portfolio. MEKO is essentially OTS, and Germany simply doesn’t compromise to buying OTS.

    However, in particular F124 has been targetted as a potential export – without success so far (Australia, Greece). This is interesting in particular as it directly targets TKMS own prospects with the Meko-D and Meko-X, which are purely draft designs and have never been in any tenders so far really.

    A “F125” for the Netherlands would of course look decidedly different in outfit. If they ever went for it (unlikely), a strike-length Mk41 would be likely for example, to support Tomahawks. EADS components would be significantly reduced and replaced by Thales components. Instead of 33-foot RIBs, LCVP Mk5s could be installed. And so on.

    I also wouldn’t be suprised btw if TKMS offered a somewhat larger F125 derivative for C2 for example, if that ever takes off. With similar modifications as above.

    MEKO-D is essentially a follow-up design to MEKO A200, and is marketed as a similar-sized but better-equipped alternative to the A200. However, the design is by now 6 years old, and has failed to attract even remote interest (not that there is noticable marketing at all!).
    MEKO-X is essentially the TKMS attempt to break into the large destroyer market, to have something in their portfolio comparable to Type 45 or Horizon. Unless a customer specifically asks TKMS for a tender in a ship class of this size, it’s doubtful MEKO X will ever be more than a paper design, just like MEKO CSL.

    Actively marketed MEKO designs are A100, A200, Sentinel, Guardian. F124 currently serves as a top-off for AAW to the portfolio, since the only other MEKO design for that is the MEKO X paper design. F125 can similarly fit into the portfolio as a top-off for MIO/surveillance roles above in particular the Sentinel and Guardian OPVs.
    We’ll probably also see a more modularized multi-role design actively marketed sometime soon in the lower bracket (ie below A100), to accomodate the newest BWB/Marine fade of MMC ships for K131 (similar to how TKMS fired the first shot with the “Meko Multirole Auxiliary” in their MHD/MRD portfolio for JSS).

    in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077353
    kato
    Participant

    The only ship the Ministry of Defence has planned to buy in the near future (untill 2015) is a Joint Support Ship.

    As the first F125 won’t be delivered before 2013/2014, we’re not talking about the “near future” anyway, but about the 2015-2020 timeframe (last F125 for Germany around 2017/2018).

    in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077378
    kato
    Participant

    7,000t? The last time I checked it was around 5,500 – 5,600t full load, though I don’t remember whether those figures were official or not.

    Latest (semi-official, TKMS) figure is around 6,800t. The design constantly grew during the initial phase, initially it was 5,600t or something like that – then 6,000t, then 6,400t, then 6,800t.

    The 6,800t figure has been around for about a year, and is in the final draft design.

    i guess that there will be no export of the f-125.

    Well, there’s that Mer et Marine article from last September according to which the Netherlands are “interested”.

    in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077398
    kato
    Participant

    Except it’s closer to 7000ts.

    in reply to: F-125 Frigate questions #2077415
    kato
    Participant

    There is no VLS planned at all, that’s just internet rumours.

    in reply to: Turkey-Future Aviation Capable Ships #2077959
    kato
    Participant

    Interesting. The “conventional” LST has become quite a rarity, after having been the norm for many years.

    Greece just introduced new 4500t LSTH as well.
    This was likely what’s stimulating the current Turkish interest in better amphibious capability.

Viewing 8 posts - 136 through 143 (of 143 total)