katoRe conscription, I see this as a mark of democracy: when everyone (males anyway) is involved in national defence it enhances that national cohesion, sense of self worth, involvement etc.
However, Switzerland is probably the only country in the world that requires its (male) citizens to pay a tax if they can’t serve themselves – both conscript recruits and reservists. And that for about any reason – be it that they are unfit for service, or be it that they are (as reservists) living outside the country.
Sort of “give us your body – or your money”. And we’re not talking a small one-off sum as is the case in a couple more corrupt countries (*cough* Turkey *cough*), but we’re talking 3% of your salary before taxes, every year.
katoIn addition to the described avionics checks on aircraft flight with payload, the instrumentation in the payload will also need to be checked in these wind tunnel tests and flight tests.
One example for that i could imagine would be the correct flow (and amount) of external coolant needed for an IR seeker, e.g. on the AIM-9 (external coolant bottle in LAU-7 rail), depending on heat builtup through airflow against the seeker – in particular transsonic.
katoAre the A400M for France with hose kits supposed to replace their KC-135F? Would make sense, numbers-wise (15 A400M with kits for 14 KC-135F)
Other than that, i don’t think refueling is that bad off. The RAF will get its A330 MRTT, the Netherlands have their 15-year-old KDC-10, Germany is vastly expanding from 4 tankers to 20 (!) with A400M. Spain also gets 9 medium tankers out of A400M, and EADS will probably try to sell them A310 or A330 MRTT for their KC-707. Italy just bought its KC-767.
Overall, by the mid-2010s, the EU will likely have at least 25+ large tanker aircraft and 45+ medium tankers. If France does not use the A400M procurement to ditch the KC-135F, and perhaps some eastern nations go for KC-130 conversions, we’d be looking at around 40 and 50+ respectively minimum. Not really all that bad.
Tornado GR4A and at least 40-50 German Tornado ECR/IDS will still be around in 10 years. Updated to multi-role aircraft, with AMRAAM/Meteor capability and all that. Beyond that, it’s not that unlikely to go on to UCAVs really, especially for the SEAD role.
The AWACS issue really is a NATO issue. If NATO continues, no need for national assets outside the current French/British/Swedish/Greek units. If it doesn’t, well… there’d be bigger problems than divvying up the NATO AWACS fleet.
katoBtw, there already are joint units with different languages (outside staff level) in the EU – the joint supply btl for 1 NL/GE corps for example, the Dutch Marine Corps integration into 3rd Commando Brigade or, the big one, D/F Brigade which mixes units both at company and btl level.
katoOpinion Piece:
I’d start with splitting outfitting into three groups:
Group A – WEU
Group B – “Western” nations outside WEU within EU
Group C – “Eastern” nations within EU
Reasoning is that there are conceivable benefits of working together between the nations within these groups; both historically, in existance, and theoretically, in particular as common needs go.
I would see prop trainers outside these groups as “national assets”, same with small tactical aircraft and helicopters; although cooperation in these is beneficial, it doesn’t provide as high offsets, and in helos we’d also be dealing with very particular Navy and Army assets – so i’m skipping that for a bit.
(Numbers from last listing, with a lot of oversimplification – take with a couple pints of salt)
Group A
UK, Germany, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, France, Greece
Fighter/Strike assets:
stowed, semi-retired – 64 A-7E/H, 99 Jaguar
carrier-capable – 108 Harrier/Harrier II, 45 SEM, 60 Rafale M (planned)
3rd gen (retirement planned) – 150 Mirage F.1B/C, 138 F-4E/F
4th gen (partial retirement) – 305 Mirage 2000, 89 F-18, 399 F-16, 473 Tornado (incl. 62 F.3)
4.5th gen (planned) – 616 Eurofighter, 234 Rafale B/C
Jet Trainer/Attack assets:
2nd gen (retirement planned) – 41 T-2E, 47 T-37
3rd gen (partial retirement) – 200 Alpha Jet, 78 AMX, 93 MB-339, 66 T-38/SF-5B, 73 C-101
in-production – 126 Hawk, 15 M-346
Tanker/Transport/Support assets:
Multirole – 4 A310 MRTT, 14 A330 MRTT (planned), 170 A400M (planned)
Tanker – 2 KDC-10, 6 KC-130, 14 KC-135, 2 KC-707, 4 KC-767, 6 TriStar KC1, 16 VC-10
Military Cargo – 119 C-130, 136 C-160, 2 G.222, 40 CN-235, 22 C-295, 24 C-27J, 6 C-17
Passenger/Cargo – 1 DC-10, 1 B707, 2 BAe 146, 14 A310, 6 EMB-135/146, 1 YS-11, 4 Fokker 50, 3 Tristar C2, 4 A340 (planned), 7 A319 (planned)
C3/AEW – 4 EMB-145 Erieye, 4 Sentinel AEW, 11 E-3 Sentry, 3 E-2 Hawkeye
ELINT/EW/Recce – 1 G.222 EW, 2 Atlantique ELINT, 1 C212 EW, 10 C212 Recce, 2 C-160 Gabriel, 3 Nimrod R3, 5 Sentinel R1, 2 C-130H EW, 13 Beechcraft Recce, 1 B707 EW, 13 BN-13 Recce
MPA – 41 Atlantique, 6 C212 MPA, 2 Dash-8 MPA, 5 C-295 MPA, 3 Fokker F27 MPA, 4 Fokker 50 MPA, 33 Nimrod MPA, 28 P-3 Orion
Group B
Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Malta, Cyprus
Fighter/Strike assets:
4th gen – 186 Gripen, 63 F-18, 60 F-16
4.5th gen – 15 Eurofighter
Jet Trainer/Attack assets:
3rd gen – 70 Saab 105
in-production – 65 Hawk
Tanker/Transport/Support assets:
Military Cargo – 3 C-17, 15 C-130, 2 C-295
Passenger/Cargo – 3 Saab 340
C3/AEW – 6 Saab 340 S100B
ELINT/EW/Recce – 2 CN-235 Recce/Patrol/Transport
(edit: numbers checked with own sources)
Group C
Poland, Czech, Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary
Fighter/Strike assets:
3rd gen (retirement planned) – 48 Su-22, 69 MiG-21
4th gen – 28 Gripen, 48 F-16, 96 MiG-29
Jet Trainer/Attack assets:
2nd gen (retirement planned) – 54 TS-11
3rd gen (partial retirement) – 59 L-39, 22 IAR-99
in-production – 28 L-159, 32 Su-25
Tanker/Transport/Support assets:
Military Cargo – 42 An-24/26/32, 3 C-17, 15 C-27J (planned), 10 C-130 (planned), 16 C-295 (planned)
Passenger/Cargo – 1 B707, 2 Tu-154, 6 Yak-40, 2 A319
ELINT/EW/Recce (to be retired) – 2 An-30 Air Survey
(edit: numbers checked with own sources)
Now, where do we go from that? From the above, a few points where consolidation would offset a lot are obvious: EW aircraft in the WEU, as well as MPAs.
The other stuff isn’t really that bad off, as variety goes – in my opinion.
Finland, Sweden and Austria could get together over a joint future trainer. Same for Eastern Europe. And with the same thing, the WEU needs to get together over Eurotrainer again – if necessary, procure two or three models for the trainer/attack role.
F-35 might bring some further consolidation into the fighters – but most is already being cleared up very nicely, as joint procurement goes.
katofor example your regular Frenchman and your regular German will NOT be able to speak together…
Of course they will – everyone speaks English, and at least 25-30% of Germans have some cursory knowledge of French as well (either as second or third language).
katoSea Eagle: retired. R530 – only Super 530? Is any version of Kormoran still used?
R530 – used in versions Super 530D and Super 530F, on F1C and Mirage 2000C.
Kormoran – Kormoran 2 is in use, last live-firing (Sinkex) uhh couple months ago in South Africa
You forgot AS.15TT – light anti-ship. But at least that & Sea Skua will probably get a single replacement. Also Otomat/Teseo, Penguin & NSM.
I was only considering air-to-surface. NSM isn’t airlaunched (JSM will be, on F-35 in about… 10-15 years at the earliest), and i’m not aware of any air-launched variant of Otomat/Teseo. AS.15TT? Don’t think anyone but Saudi Arabia actually uses it – definitely no one in Europe. Got me on Penguin :p
In air-to-air, i completely forgot about Skyflash – although we could count it under AIM-7 variant?
katoAnd if you think the airplanes & helicopters are complicated, just try to pull stats on the potential missiles that an EU Air Force would operate! Its even more insane than the overly simplified list I put together.
Nah, not really, see e.g.:
Air-to-air
Defense: Stinger (helo-only), Mistral (helo-only), R-60
Short-ranged: AIM-9*, IRIS-T, ASRAAM, R530*, R-73
Medium- to Long-ranged: R-27*, R550, Mica, AIM-120*, Meteor, AIM-7*
*- various versions
Air-to-surface
Light: HOT, Spike-ER, PARS3**, TOW, AT-3, AT-6, Brimstone, Hellfire
Medium: AGM-65, Kh-29, (anti-radar: ALARM, HARM), (anti-ship: Kormoran II, Sea Skua, Sea Eagle, Marte Mk2)
Heavy: Storm Shadow, SCALP, Taurus, (anti-ship: RBS-15F, Harpoon, Exocet)
Nuclear: ASMP, ASMP-A**
**- to be introduced
and so on… probably missed a handful already.
katoShould NATO assets be included in the list?
That would be in Luxembourg nominally (stationed in Germany):
3x B707
14x E-3 Sentry
Sidenote – the NH90 lists should be:
NHI NH90 TTH (4 Belgium, 20 Finland, 68 France, 122 Germany, 20 Greece, 70 Italy, 10 Portugal, 76 Spain, 13 Sweden)
NHI NH90 NFH (4 Belgium, 27 France, 46 Italy, 20 Netherlands, 14 Norway*, 28 Spain, 5 Sweden)
The TTH order would include the various CSAR and SOF variants.
katoGermany won’t buy hose kits either afaik – or at least the Luftwaffe only lists the A400M as “a transport aircraft that can be reconfigured to tanker”, and while citing cargo payload figures doesn’t do so the same with a tanker role.
katoMissing at a glance:
– German CH-53G/GS (Heeresflieger)
– German Super Puma (Luftwaffe Flugbereitschaft)
– RAF Hawks
– Polish SAMs still in service: SA-2, SA-3, SA-5.
Certain numbers seem vastly overstated, e.g. Polish helicopters. Germany doesn’t have any Atlantique MPAs, only the stated ELINT (not early warning) variant. Couple other things like that.
katoThat would make for some pretty fatigued SAM operators if they were operating like that
That’s why some countries assign multiple crews. German Gepards are operated like that – 24/7 crewed, by having three crews: one in the vehicle, one on rest, and one on reduced duty operating as a Stinger team on contact. Switch every 8 hours or so.
katoStep 0.1: Money. Get some.
Step 0.2: Limitation. Only go for the WEU at first.
Step 1.1: Unify supply and transport fleet (see EDA, én grande).
Step 1.2: Unify jet trainer concept (read: Eurotrainer, perhaps even with two models).
Step 2.1: Streamline fighter procurement to select from a limited set (EF, Rafale, Gripen, used Mirage 2000).
Step 2.2: F-35. Unified procurement.
Step 3.0: Nuclear Sharing. Decide on it.
…
A lot of variety dissolves itself with time. Just look at the British transport and support fleet as an example, or the aging jet trainer fleets for which a solution has been discussed for 10 years now.
katoPerhaps the relative movement of the platoons of the battery between firing positions, added up?
Would make more sense, although 250-300 km would still mean 8-12 hours movement for each platoon. Move between say 4-5 positions 50-80 km apart per day, sit there for an hour or two each, move again…
Would make it more likely to keep the vehicles fueled too, though – single refueling per day. Would likely only work with double/triple crewing though, much like Germany does it.
katoSo… the option of Tornado F3s “attached” to some recursive Tristar chain on a very-long-range CAP is out in the first place?
Because those were bought for exactly such reasons i thought.
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