F125, in the latest concept, has been pushed to 7200 tons btw – at twice the displacement not even remotely comparable to LCS anymore.

Somewhat interestingly in this regard, the German F125 frigates will have the planes of their MFR spread over both masts in order to both achieve full 360-degree coverage, and have redundancy in case of combat damage to one of the two masts.

The MFR will be optimized for short- to medium-range high-resolution surveillance, backed up by a 360-degree EO/IR system to reliably spot small-signature targets. All effectors will have their own EO/IR systems in addition to that, and not rely on the main radar systems.

Looks like they want a pretty big carrier group too that would include 18 frigates and six SSNs as well as combat aircraft and helicopters.

You’re reading that sentence wrong. It means:
– “an aircraft-carrier group including combat, surveillance and rescue aircraft and helicopters”
– “18 frigates”
– “6 SSNs”
– “the capability to deploy one or two naval groups […]”
A considerable number of those frigates go to guarding FOST (FREMMs) and to more generalized patrol/surveillance roles (Lafayettes). The rest (say 8-10 ships) are split between the CBG and the “one or two naval groups”. Or in other words, the CBG will remain at 3-4 organic escorts.

also a guided round (DART/Strales/DAVIDE) although yet to see evidence of a customer

Bought pretty much. Germany. The F125 gun deal included an “upgrade” to the 76mm guns of the F124 ships (yet to be installed). Since the only available such “upgrade” from Finmeccanica at the moment is Strales…

Oh, one thing I forgot. Denmark is upgrading to Harpoon II. Read: limited strike capability.

F125 as LCS? Oh please. The future K131 (modularized corvettes with high drone usage as currently envisioned) might fit the bill – but F125? Definitely not.

MEKO CSL is built to almost exactly the LCS requirements set btw.

Can I pick it apart a bit?

Exact makeup of ASW in F125? Can tell you that, as planned – zero. Capability to embark ASW mission modules for the NH-90s, nothing else. I’ve yet to see a official source stating that a sonar would be fitted.

Helos in air-to-surface ops – the EH101 so far is only integrating the Marte Mk2/S (for Italy), no other AShM. German NH-90 would be qualified for Sea Skua, US helos for Penguin and Hellfire.

I’d also contest the “excellent CIWS” in LCS1/2 at least. More like “just barely approaching baseline”, depending on perspective of course. Doesn’t even have 360-degree coverage. 😉

In the self-defense capability, you’re completely omitting soft-kill and sensor systems (IRST, EO tracking systems, decoys…). Ok, wouldn’t change the results, but noting these is important.

Shore bombardment – not a tie. F125 uses Vulcano, Absalon uses a Mk45 Mod 4. Since ERGM was cancelled, this clearly puts Vulcano ahead as far as range goes. The land-attack missile capability for F125 that “might be planned” is a firm thing to be introduced with the future “Standard Missile Land/Sea Target” (which might be RBS-15 Mk4 – but doesn’t have to be). The Harpoon Block 1C that will be mounted as a standin will have to go by the late 2010s, since support runs out for this Block.

Oh, and the Absalon has been stuffed with 10 Leo 2s before, not just the regular 7.

As such these seem unsuitable for any sort of even vaguely littoral operation (please correct me if im wrong). Thus would a smaller vessel for operations close to shore be useful?

Depends – as usual – on where you put littoral.

If we take a “less than 100 feet” approach, almost all fleet submarines are SOL. German coastal subs – considerably less suitable for open-ocean operation – are optimized for such operations, with a Type 212A reportedly cruising at 20+ knots submerged in less than 75 feet of water during its initial trials.

There’s a considerable amount of “interesting” waters that support such operations in particular – e.g. the Persian Gulf, but also say close-to-shore regions in South-East Asia.

Regarding small SSNs – Brazil has been trying to fit a reactor into what’d essentially be a 1600 ton Tikuna hull for a decade now. The French Rubis are only 2600 tons too, still far smaller than a Kilo, and about the same size as the “coastal” Kilo successor Lada.

come back with the figures for FREMM

Sure. $710 million, Morocco deal. Afaik without Aster missiles. Now take the heavily undervalued dollar at the moment into account, and we’re getting rather close.

LCS2 is projected for a cost of what, around $640 million right now for the prototype? Slap 15% off for unit cost in a serial production run, to be fair.

To bring this to equivalence to a FREMM, let’s say $40-50 million in ASW equipment, and another $40-50 million for at least two Mk48s (without missiles) and CEAFAR. Wouldn’t be quite equivalent, but still not bad for a GP frigate. Add Harpoon. Under FMS, those are around $15 million.

Where are we now… $650 to 670 million. Sure, could be competitive. But that’s a ship that has no growth space left, doesn’t look as “big” as a FREMM (and that is important), is slightly deficient in AAW comparison, and needs good ties to the USA. And of course that B+V would bid against with a fully decked-out Meko A200 with similar specs for $100 million less at least.

—

B+V currently holds 25% of the worldwide frigate export market btw, according to the German government [1]. Not what i would call a “lock” either, but it’s a rather significant share.

[1] – Naval Industry Coordinator Dagmar Wöhrl at this conference

The current world-wide market is moving to:
a) multi-role auxiliaries (amphibs with RAS and sealift functionality for example).
b) OPVs of various armament levels (including in German exports); increased EEZ control demand
c) renewal of conventional fleets, with new emphasis on multi-role capability, and land-attack.

F125 fits into b) as a top-level tie-off, with limited capability in c).

(little side-note: the above is pretty much verbatim from a TKMS Surface Division board member)