DC PageThanks G-ORDY, that makes sense. After going to the trouble of a complete restoration I would expect him to go with the more original, accurate configuration. He’s very good with the details.:)
DC PageI would doubt that TE476 still has its BoB Film wing tips.
The tips were produced at the time to convert several low back Mk XVI’s in to ‘Markaddies’ for the use as static and taxiing aircraft. They were not structural or airworthy items and did not include navigation lights,
Excuse me for being too vague in my statement. I didn’t mean to imply that the actual metal work and rivets that were installed to give the Spit clipped wings for the film were still a part of the aircraft. What I should have said is that Spitfire TE476 as it sits today in Florida doesn’t have round wing tips, and didn’t have them when she first flew after restoration in June of 1995.
If all of the dates given for the pictures in this thread are accurate then TE476 must have had her wing tips changes several times before Kermit Weeks acquired her.
DC PageOriginally Posted by G-ORDY
Don’t know about the post but PK624 is now owned by The Fighter Collection and is dismantled in their hangar at Duxford – has been for quite some time.
Yes that’s what I meant in my earlier post about it arriving at Duxford in October of 1994 and is still there undergoing restoration. I got some pictures of it still in storage when I last was there in 2004, and a friend just sent me some pictures of it taken in the last year that show it stripped to bare metal. Looks like it still has a long way to go.
BTW – the wingtips fitted to TE476 for The Battle of Britain film were retained when it was displayed on the gate at Northolt.
TE476 Still has those wingtips today, some 40 years later. I believe all of the other film survivors have been returned to original. My earlier comment about them referred to the fact you can easily date those older pictures as before 67/68 and after just by the wing modifications, but something in the record doesn’t make sense. If the wings were modified around 1967/68 for the film, and TE476 actually arrived at Northolt on July 2nd, 1970 for display, then when were those pictures taken? It is obviously the same location that PK624 is photographed in, but the wingtips are original and unmodified. Also the picture of TE476 in silver with obviously clipped wings shows truck tires or some sort of dolly underneath the belly of the plane. Was this used for moving aircraft around? Thanks.
DC PageWhat happened to the last post regarding PK624? It seems to have disappeared. I was going through some of my RAF museum notes and came across this:
May 1993
Avro Anson W2068
Fuselage less wings imported into the UK by the Fighter Collection, Duxford; Offered to the RAF Museum in an exchange deal, in which the RAF Museum acquired the restored Anson fuselage and engines, undercarriage and tail, plus the rebuilding of its P-47 Thunderbolt, in exchange for former gate guard Spitfire Mk.22 PK624.
DC PageWhen I saw the Spitfire at RAF Northolt it was late April of 1976, and it was elevated and very close to the road. I think it was surrounded by trees because I don’t think it was visible for very long while driving by. It was pointed at the road and above me as we passed by. It was in green camouflage, not bare metal or silver. I have no doubt the aircraft I saw was TE476, and I believe it was close to the gate at West End Road.
There is a thread on the PPRuNe website from 2004 concerning these Spitfires. A poster by the name of Speedbird48 says he and a man named Jim Dell were ordered to go to RAF Uxbridge in 1963 to dismantle and move Spitfire PK624 for transport to RAF Northolt. He says it was stripped and painted before going to the South side gate near the A40. When he dismantled PK624 he noticed several panels were marked PK110, and says that the engine was just a frame to mount a prop hub on. He also said the aircraft was easy to take apart and was in good condition since all bolts and screws were well greased. This aircraft was displayed at Uxbridge with Chipmunk serial WP916. It was displayed at RAF Northolt from 1963 until 1968 where it was correctly re-numbered as PK624. In 1968 some renovation work was done and it was allocated for use in the Battle of Britain filming, but was not used. It remained at Northolt until 23rd of July, 1970, then it was moved to RAF Abingdon where it stayed until the Great Spitfire Reclamation of the late 1980’s. PK624 arrived at St. Athan in August of 1989 where it remained until October of 1994. It arrived at Duxford on the 11th of October 1994 and is still there undergoing restoration.
Spitfire TE476 suffered a belly landing in September of 1959, was quickly repaired and issued to No. 11 Group Communications Flight (BBMF) early January 1960. By late January 1960 it was issued to RAF Neatishead for ground display. In February 1967 it was moved to RAF Henlow for restoration to taxiing condition for use in BofB filming. It was used for taxi scenes bearing serial numbers 3311 and 3320, and Squadron codes AI-B and AI-F. After film duties it went to RAF Kemble to be refurbished and was issued to RAF Northolt for display and arrived on June 2nd, 1970. It was completely refurbished during 1976/77 and was gate guard until August of 1989. The Spitfire replica replaced it a few months later.
Spitfire Mk XVIe TE476 is believed to be the only Spitfire to keep her BofB clipped wings. You can date the pictures in this thread by whether or not it has round wing tips.
Thanks again to everyone for your help and information.
DC Pageavion ancien
Would anyone more knowledgeable than me care to comment on the justifiability of this statement?
The aircraft history in my earlier post is from “UK Gate Guards” a file available on the GoogleEarth website that has locations and descriptions of over 140 aircraft that are, or have been gate guards at UK locations. That was how I confirmed jim_jobe and Bob’s first posts that suggested the location I was thinking of was RAF Northolt, and therefore the Spitfire I was looking for was TE476.
I don’t know how old that description is, or exactly how accurate it is today, but when Kermit’s Spit was first restored by Personal Plane Services and flown in 1995 I’m sure that it was one of the most accurate and original Spitfire restorations in private hands at the time. The “unheard of in England at the time” part sounds wrong to me because that is no doubt why Kermit sent the aircraft back to England for restoration. There was then, and is now still more first hand knowledge and experience about the construction and maintenance details of Spitfires in England than any other place in the world. Probably more than all other places combined! Extremely accurate restorations are a little more common now than they were in the early 1990’s, though still pretty rare. Especially restorations to flying status.
There are many more details and pictures of this aircraft out there and I’m going through them now. It appears this Spit had a wheels-up landing and because of that accident was first made a gate guard at RAF Neatishead. It was then probably pulled down for possible use in the Battle of Britain filming, and then on to RAF Northolt.
DC PageThis refers to the full-size replica Spitfire which is now pylon mounted at Northolt – it is further West than the original site.
Yes I saw the pictures and the website of the Polish Memorial replica Spitfire but realized that couldn’t be what I saw in 1976 because of it’s location and when it was put there.
DC PageThanks G-ORDY for your help and the info.
R/
Dave
DC PageHere is the GooglEarth view of RAF Northolt. The small blue square in the lower right hand corner near the roundabout is the Polish Memorial. In the middle of the picture is the location marker from the “UK Gate Guards” file I found that confirmed the aircraft, but the location is obviously not correct.
DC PageThanks very much to all of you for your help finding the mystery Spitfire. The first 2 posts had it exactly right, though it took a couple of hours of further research to confirm it. jim_jobe and Bob correctly surmised it was RAF Northolt and Spitfire Mk XVI #TE476, currently in Polk City, Florida, and owned by Kermit Weeks. I saw this plane at his museum many years ago but had no idea it was the one I saw in England in 1976. I am very happy to know it is flying again and since I have friends and family in the area I will be able to see it again in December when I am down there.
Mark12 was on the right track in his thinking:
Tourist, in London, hire car, look at map, A40, to Oxford, Western Avenue, main dual carriageway, you will see the Northolt Spitfire.
That was how I tried to retrace our possible path with GoogleEarth a few months ago, but since the Spit is no longer there, I wasn’t sure. As I said in my first post I think the Spit was on a pole because I remember looking up at it as we went by. I seem to recall it being surrounded by trees and hedges. Bob, your wife may have the best perspective having lived at Northolt, can you tell me where the Spit was located? Was it at the southeast corner of the airfield where the Polish memorial is now, or was it further up the road along the A40? I found a GoogleEarth file of “UK Gate Guards” that confirmed what you and jim_jobe first guessed.
Aircraft History:
This particular aircraft was built at Castle Bromwich, England in 1945, the last year of the war. In 1958, it was 1 of 2 Spitfires used to form the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight that continues to fly at air shows in Great Britain today. Retired in 1960, it was later made run-able for taxi shots in the film, the Battle of Britain. In 1970, it was mounted as a gate guard in front of the Northolt RAF station in London. At some point in the 1980’s, it was traded out of the Royal Air Force. Kermit acquired the aircraft in 1989 and it was shipped to Miami, Florida for storage. After Hurricane Andrew devastated Kermit’s shop and the Weeks Air Museum in 1992, it was shipped back to Personal Plane Services in England for restoration. Over a 6 year period, the aircraft was slowly restored using almost 90% of its original aircraft skins. Kermit insisted that the aircraft be restored to as original condition as possible. This was unheard of in England at the time. Guns, cannons, gun sight and original working radios are all installed, making this the most originally restored Spitfire in the world! Its’ post-restoration flight occurred in June of 1995. It was soon shipped to Florida where it was re-assembled to start flying at Fantasy of Flight.
Thanks again to everyone for helping me find this aircraft.
Regards,
Dave
DC PageApparently he rolled it more than once. Tim Laming’s book “The Vulcan Story” says “Roly Falk demonstrated the aircraft’s high performance in the second production Vulcan, XA890, by performing an upward barrel roll immediately after takeoff at the 1955 Farnborough Airshow.”
The video clip I have is of a gentleman at Woodford that shows the skylights of the new assembly and he says that Roly took those out on the return flight from Farnborough.
DC PageHello All, I’ve been lurking for some time just listening in but this is the first time I have posted.
There is some good footage on YouTube of Falk barrel rolling the second production Vulcan on takeoff at Farnborough in 1955. Also a clip of someone talking about his flight down to Farnborough from Woodford and back, and how on his return he came in low over the Avro “new assembly” building and rolled it, breaking out all the glass in the roof of the building. Just do a search for “Vulcan roll” and there are quite a few clips. Great stuff!
Regards,
Dave
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