RE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds

Geforce

Nice of you to remind us all (once more) of how badly you were used by the US in WWI, WWII, and during the cold war. It always make me laugh when I see a cheap attempt by those who caused the problems in the first place, to try and shift the issue away from their own behavour by attacking others.

Geforce, you were the very one who once stated on this forum that the US should not expect current Europeans to be eternally grateful for deeds rendured by previous generations of Americans (not to mention other nations). You used the term ‘grandfathers’ as I recall. Odd that now, when it suits you, you have no problem referring to those events to justify the current policies of Belgium in its role of ‘handmaiden’ to France and Germany.

Regards

Sauron

RE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance

Beyond their economic ties with Saddam Hussein, French and German opposition to the US is due to their vision of themselves as leaders of an EU with enough power to counter US infuence.

It has little to do with their ‘peace is always perferable to war and war is always a failure’ bulls**t. There behavour in supporting SH against the US is simply to curb US influence.

The Germans have no choice but to stay out of any war. The French will probably continue to play the champions of peace role until the last moment and then join in.

IMHO they are both concerned that if the US takes SH down (with or without UN support)and the result is a democratic Iraq and some positive improvements throughout the mid-east, that US influence may actually rise and that is the last outcome they want.

Regards

Sauron

RE: War or no war?

Ink

Interesting comments with respect to the current situation in Serbia.

My reference to 1939 and Germany was not intended to justify, defend or explain any motivation, point of view or position, for why and what happened later, but simply to suggest that support for war against Germany, would have probably been no higher among the general populations in 1939, than it is for one against Iraq now. People during the 1920′ and 30’s were strongly anti-war in both NA and Europe as a result of experiences during WWI but appeasement didn’t work against Hitler and dosn’t appear to be working with Saddam.

No disrespect to you in particular Ink but it’s interesting how many people bring up the late entry of the US into WWI and II. That and the fact of past US reluctance to participate directly in many of the so called “brush wars” of the cold war period, are clearly ment to imply that Americans are only self-serving cowards. On the other hand, when it suits them, these same people also accuse the US of “rushing to war” instead of giving diplomacy a chance.

Regards

Sauron

RE: War or no war?

Ink

You refer to spheres of infuence, specifically those of the US. I am not sure this concept explains US involvement in the Kosovo issue. It seems to me that the US’s reluctant to get involved there, suggests otherwise. I can’t see that it has gained any advantage, economically or otherwise for it’s involvment and being cast as the only bad-guy dosn’t do it any good either.

As far as Iraq is concerned, I have dificulty understanding how so many ‘liberal’ minded nations and institutions are willing to let the human rights, self-determination and disarmament issues there, go unresolved for so long.

At the very least I would have thought that presenting a united front at the UN so as to apply maximum pressure on SH would have had everyone’s backing. It would appear that many nations have decided that getting pissed at the US President over calling a few megalomaniacs ‘evil” is more important than dealing with be real issue. Saddam must be laughing.

A differnt time and place, but I wonder how many people in Europe and North America (or anywhere else for that matter) would have agreed on going to war with Germany in 1939?

Regards

Sauron

RE: Have a Read Of This

Not a day in the military Sam for which I am grateful. If there are war stories to be to told, you or someone else will have to tell them.

Those are good names you mentioned. I doubt if any of them would give Boles the time of day. Certainly not Mr. Scowcroft.

Regards

Sauron

RE: Have a Read Of This

Types like Boles are a dime a dozen in US universities. They crank out s**t like this constantly. They are esentually the hard core left who live comfortably in the US and feel guilty about it.

They and the Hollywood ‘limo’ liberals have taken to calling themselves “progressives” which is a term not used in the US for some time but has found favour again. New or old, the smell is the same.

Regards

Sauron

RE: Same old Europe

“Why should we find any solution for other countries affairs”

Gosh! Why didn’t I think of that?

Regards

Sauron

RE: Same old Europe

Guys

After you get over thinking up additional ways to act insulted about the US defence secretary’s remarks about the new Europe, perhaps I could raise a point about the old Europe.

Most of it seem to share some of the concerns of the US re Iraq and SH in particular. Why then, was this not a issue with those same countries before the US President made his evil remark? Why were they not advancing the re-instatement of the weapons inspections by the UN in Iraq then?

It took Bush long enough to recognise that there was unfinished buiness with SH and Iraq, but eventually he did. Where was Europe on the issue then? I don’t recall any active diplomatic action by Europe or anyone else, nor any push to get the issue elevated on the UN’s agenda. This was never just a US problem.

In addition, where are the European solutions to the North Korean issue?… apart from blaming the US that is.

Regards

Sauron