SauronRE: Same old Europe
Guys
After you get over thinking up additional ways to act insulted about the US defence secretary’s remarks about the new Europe, perhaps I could raise a point about the old Europe.
Most of it seem to share some of the concerns of the US re Iraq and SH in particular. Why then, was this not a issue with those same countries before the US President made his evil remark? Why were they not advancing the re-instatement of the weapons inspections by the UN in Iraq then?
It took Bush long enough to recognise that there was unfinished buiness with SH and Iraq, but eventually he did. Where was Europe on the issue then? I don’t recall any active diplomatic action by Europe or anyone else, nor any push to get the issue elevated on the UN’s agenda. This was never just a US problem.
In addition, where are the European solutions to the North Korean issue?… apart from blaming the US that is.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: War or no war?
Jonesy
Your summary of the situation is equal to your usual high degree knowledge about things naval.
Sauron
SauronRE: War or no war?
Jonesy
Your summary of the situation is equal to your usual high degree knowledge about things naval.
Sauron
SauronRE: The dumb and dumber show
Seahawk
Given Germany’s reprehensible record of aggressive behavour, everyone will be content to see it remain passive on military issues. Perhaps, Herr Schroder should stick to trying to fix the German economy. Perhaps he feels that giving moral support to Saddam Insane will help.
Perhaps he feels that support for Iraq will assist German companies to secure additional oil and arms deals with Saddam.
Its odd to say the least, how a country with such strong pacifist views would give such a strong positive signal to the megelomaniac leader of a country which has started wars with his neighbours and so obviously want to continue, that says… hey we support you!
As for France, well as I heard someone say recently, well “the French are the French” and who really cares. They will continue to play both sides of the fence until they see which way the cat is going to jump and then wade in to claim a piece of the glory.
Rumsfeld has them both pegged pretty well. They are just going for the limelight because thats all they have to offer. No solutions just bad timing. Just another bottle of good French wine for both and another bottle of hair dye for ‘Herr’ Schroder!. 🙂
As far as Korea is concerned Seahawk, what would be your plan to deal this more dangerous situation? I am sure their are some folks here who would like to know.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: The dumb and dumber show
Seahawk
Given Germany’s reprehensible record of aggressive behavour, everyone will be content to see it remain passive on military issues. Perhaps, Herr Schroder should stick to trying to fix the German economy. Perhaps he feels that giving moral support to Saddam Insane will help.
Perhaps he feels that support for Iraq will assist German companies to secure additional oil and arms deals with Saddam.
Its odd to say the least, how a country with such strong pacifist views would give such a strong positive signal to the megelomaniac leader of a country which has started wars with his neighbours and so obviously want to continue, that says… hey we support you!
As for France, well as I heard someone say recently, well “the French are the French” and who really cares. They will continue to play both sides of the fence until they see which way the cat is going to jump and then wade in to claim a piece of the glory.
Rumsfeld has them both pegged pretty well. They are just going for the limelight because thats all they have to offer. No solutions just bad timing. Just another bottle of good French wine for both and another bottle of hair dye for ‘Herr’ Schroder!. 🙂
As far as Korea is concerned Seahawk, what would be your plan to deal this more dangerous situation? I am sure their are some folks here who would like to know.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: The dumb and dumber show
ELP
No fly zone over southern France. 🙂 Good one!
Perhaps Rumsfeld was suggesting that the reason that the ‘old Europe” is so tolerant of Saddam Insane is that it has forgotten what it is like to live under a dictatorship. Unlike their eastern European brethren who have more recent experiences with the stalinist clones that held power throughout the former WAR PAC countries.
He is certainly smart enough to recognize the dismal timing of those two sharpies from France and Germany who chose to give Saddam all the encouragement he needs to keep defying the UN at the very moment that six middle east countries were demanding Iraq cooperate more fully and others are apparently encouraging him to leave Iraq. Saddam will be encouraged by these two a–holes.
Talk about ‘dumb and dumber’! They look pretty stupid putting their desire to poke the US in the eye, at the UN’s expense.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: The dumb and dumber show
ELP
No fly zone over southern France. 🙂 Good one!
Perhaps Rumsfeld was suggesting that the reason that the ‘old Europe” is so tolerant of Saddam Insane is that it has forgotten what it is like to live under a dictatorship. Unlike their eastern European brethren who have more recent experiences with the stalinist clones that held power throughout the former WAR PAC countries.
He is certainly smart enough to recognize the dismal timing of those two sharpies from France and Germany who chose to give Saddam all the encouragement he needs to keep defying the UN at the very moment that six middle east countries were demanding Iraq cooperate more fully and others are apparently encouraging him to leave Iraq. Saddam will be encouraged by these two a–holes.
Talk about ‘dumb and dumber’! They look pretty stupid putting their desire to poke the US in the eye, at the UN’s expense.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Korea..an example?
IMHO, apart from supporting the current peace keeping efforts, there is no need for maintaining any US combat forces in Europe. It’s hard to imagine a circumstance where they would be needed given the anti-war views which are now universal throughout Europe and the modifying affect that NATO and the EU now has on politics there, not to mention the UN, which the European nations put so much faith in. Would Greece and Turkey for example actually fight in the current circumstance? What are the chances that another Milosevic could take power?
US forces should be withdraw ASAP from South Korea as their presence is being used by both sides to maintain the status quo and blame the US for the impass. A speedy departure would also force China, Japan and Russia to deal with the issue of the bomb in NK. Japan and the two Korea’s would have to decide whether or not it would be in their best collective interests to remain nuclear weapons free or not. Another good project for the UN.
I agree with EPL’s view concerning Japan, as well as his comments about the need for the US to maintain strong cooperation with its friends around the world re INTEL, joint training, peacekeeping, and so on and in particuliar concerning ways and means to combat the reactionary forces which are a threat to everyone. There would be huge cost savings for the USA, not the least of which would come from army manpower reductions.
The middle east is another issue of cource.
I suspect that some of these changes will come quite rapidly.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Korea..an example?
IMHO, apart from supporting the current peace keeping efforts, there is no need for maintaining any US combat forces in Europe. It’s hard to imagine a circumstance where they would be needed given the anti-war views which are now universal throughout Europe and the modifying affect that NATO and the EU now has on politics there, not to mention the UN, which the European nations put so much faith in. Would Greece and Turkey for example actually fight in the current circumstance? What are the chances that another Milosevic could take power?
US forces should be withdraw ASAP from South Korea as their presence is being used by both sides to maintain the status quo and blame the US for the impass. A speedy departure would also force China, Japan and Russia to deal with the issue of the bomb in NK. Japan and the two Korea’s would have to decide whether or not it would be in their best collective interests to remain nuclear weapons free or not. Another good project for the UN.
I agree with EPL’s view concerning Japan, as well as his comments about the need for the US to maintain strong cooperation with its friends around the world re INTEL, joint training, peacekeeping, and so on and in particuliar concerning ways and means to combat the reactionary forces which are a threat to everyone. There would be huge cost savings for the USA, not the least of which would come from army manpower reductions.
The middle east is another issue of cource.
I suspect that some of these changes will come quite rapidly.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Why not a new thread?
Now, now Steve. Don’t get touchy just because you didn’t have anything to say about the subject at hand but I am sure Garry appreciated it.
It would appear you are the one who resents opinions contrary to your own.
I enjoy a good debate with Garry about the merits of action against Sadam Insane, the reason for the downfall of the good old USSR or any other subject and he never seems to mind that I have contrary veiws and he has never whined to me about it nor I to him. He is a good skater.
With respect to article you posted, I thought we were talking about Iraq and not US military salary levels. They may indeed be low but at least they are made. I hear that in the former Russian socialist republic that military salaries are sometime not paid at all. Perhaps the US has had to divert funds from it’s military to paying for the distruction of Russian weapons program.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Why not a new thread?
Now, now Steve. Don’t get touchy just because you didn’t have anything to say about the subject at hand but I am sure Garry appreciated it.
It would appear you are the one who resents opinions contrary to your own.
I enjoy a good debate with Garry about the merits of action against Sadam Insane, the reason for the downfall of the good old USSR or any other subject and he never seems to mind that I have contrary veiws and he has never whined to me about it nor I to him. He is a good skater.
With respect to article you posted, I thought we were talking about Iraq and not US military salary levels. They may indeed be low but at least they are made. I hear that in the former Russian socialist republic that military salaries are sometime not paid at all. Perhaps the US has had to divert funds from it’s military to paying for the distruction of Russian weapons program.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Why not a new thread?
Well guys I guess when you have no valid point to make its easier to change the subject.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Why not a new thread?
Well guys I guess when you have no valid point to make its easier to change the subject.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Korea..an example?
Vortex
Yes I would concur that Japan has in some ways been a better friend of the US than the rest.
There was a period when the communists in Japan used the anti-US card during Japan’s elections. Their protests were very entertaining. Lots of colour, noise, smoke and and highly coordinated advances and charges on the police lines. Much more fun to watch than the pathetic and mindless stuff that the anti-globalists come up with now.
Regards
Sauron
SauronRE: Korea..an example?
Vortex
Yes I would concur that Japan has in some ways been a better friend of the US than the rest.
There was a period when the communists in Japan used the anti-US card during Japan’s elections. Their protests were very entertaining. Lots of colour, noise, smoke and and highly coordinated advances and charges on the police lines. Much more fun to watch than the pathetic and mindless stuff that the anti-globalists come up with now.
Regards
Sauron
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