Originally posted by glitter
That’s what I called a stupid sentence.
So according to you, SK lied to everybody whitout losing their smiles ?

It’s was just a joke, chill out.

My usual question.
Is it just a mistake or a lie ?
Not only the F-15K is more expensive, the couple SLAM-ER + F-15 UNPROVEN but the weapons package is pretty close to zero and Dasault proposed the best tranfer technology with Russia.

So please, accept it, even with the logistical troubles, the Rafale was ahead and it’s a political loose.

Let’s see what will happen in singapore.

What are you talking about, Again it was not just the plane. Obviously, Rafale wasn’t that much better than F-15K’s capability otherwise it wouldn’t even be question here. The question you should be asking is why isn’t this 4th generation fighter that much better than 30 year old platform.

SLAM-ER!?!?? French wasn’t including the weapons either, so what is your point. What were the French offering, for every planes you buy we throw in two Smart bombs? At least with US they have access to them. And what about JSOW, JDAM and other Latest laser guided bombs and GPS guided bombs. If the Americans are going to use them, the cost per missiles/bomb goes down. So it will be cheaper to buy them. The french military industry can’t guarantee that. Can the French guarantee the same technology at that cost? I would say NO. Why don’t you mention that?

And SLAMER unproven, what does that mean? US tested it already! US NAVY is deploying them! GOD FORBID STOP THE NAVY THEY ARE GETTING WEAPON THAT IS NOT PROVEN!!!!! or by the way what do the French have that is already proven or have similar capability? Answer is NONE. And what about the latest development that is going on with it, like ability to hit a moving target. Can you say the same for anything your country can offer?

What about JDAM, they only cost $18K can French provide that kind of weapon system at similar cost? the research/development is done, no extra cost involved. No tremendous extra cost to intergrate them in to the Air Force since USAF and ROKAF uses same equipment.

The list goes on and on and on. Why can’t you accept that fact? Why do you choose to ignore this?

And guess what, What you guys did here is something a car salesman would do, offer you cheaper upfront cost, then when you get the sale, you rape them because you got them where you want them, and charge whatever you want with the weapons. And don’t bullcrap me about that not being the case. Why else would you offer your planes for less. French knew they could re-coup the cost with the weapons. And what good is a plane if you are still lobbying iron bomb at your enemy?

So stop dismissing the US industry connection as something trivial. That is most important part of the deal. Access to the latest and the greatest technology. With minimum cost to the government.

I know you got your nationalistic feelings hurt by the decision and you feel cheated, but it wasn’t just the merit of the plane, it was the overall package. Accept it as fact and part of the deal, even if you find it hard to swallow.

Now go home and sulk over some fine Le Roulé and baguette to go with that whine you are serving. :p

There is a story about how American and British planes were trying to knock out a Anti-Aircraft Radar in the Balkins, and how American tried over and over again but they couldn’t knock it out. But RAF went there with ALARM and knocked it out in one try.

ALARM works in two ways, it can be fired just like any other ARM, but it also has a loitering function, which sets it apart from others.

Speaking of ARM, can they put these missiles on a Drones and let it loiter for hours on end. To me it seems like a perfect plan.

Originally posted by Srbin
They should’ve stuck with their own AJT even if it was way behind scheduele.

If anything the Hawk is way too overpriced, it costs something like 18-19mn/plane, ridicilous when the Yak-130 costs anywhere from 10-12mn and can do way more than the Hawk, not only it’s supersonic but it’s range and payload are twice as bigger than Hawk’s, it’s also a combat trainer and could be fitted with all kinds of weapons and it’s Russian on top of it.

Hawk is a proven trainer and simple maintenance need. And it has advanced electronics that modern pilots need and has a superb handling qualities.

What you describe with the Yak-130: Supersonic, longer range, bigger payload, aren’t really necessary for trainer. Plus no one is using it, unless you are building it yourselves, ie Hawk, T-50, you do not want to be the guinea pig as the 1st customer. Also you have to wait for the planes to be built (meaning the production line has to be built and all of the kinks worked out before production can start), and get the instructors trained, then have the instructors qualified to train students. How long are the Indians going to wait?

Originally posted by Charlie Echo
Does anyone have any data regarding the Blue Vixen, like range etc? Its dish seems to be very small, when compared with APG-65, 63 etc :confused:

Blue Vixen
Advanced Multi-Mode / Multi-function Radar
Specifically developed to exploit the capabilities of AMRAAM, Blue Vixen is in service in the Sea Harrier F/A 2. It incorporates a high degree of automation to provide a two-seat capability in a single-seat fighter. The pilot is able to keep his hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) while selecting functions and weapons. The radar automatically selects the appropriate mode according to target density and clutter background, and the targets are clearly presented without further intervention of the pilot.

The Blue Vixen multimode, pulse-Doppler, I-band radar from GEC-Marconi Avionics (GMAv) was designed specifically for the UK Royal Navy’s (RN) Sea Harrier FA.2 upgrade, to be used in conjunction with the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) beyond-visual-range (BVR) weapon. With miniature components, elements of the system are remotely sited (in the rear fuselage) and connected by a fiber-optic link.

Blue Vixen offers full all-weather capability across both land and sea in look-up/ look-down modes. The system automatically selects a high, medium, or low pulse-repetition frequency (PRF) for optimum detection, depending on the target density or background clutter. Tracks can be formed at ranges of between 75 nm and 80 nm (139-148 km). In look-down mode, a low PRF provides accurate range/velocity with all-aspect detection, while a high PRF offers detection of high-speed targets in a high-clutter environment. RN experience in the skies over Bosnia proved that the radar is capable of detecting slow-flying helicopters at low level. Intelligent automation reduces the pilot’s workload in such areas as track-forming, mode selection, and threat prioritization.

According to Cdr Richard Hawkins, Commander Air Warfare at the Sea Harrier base of Yeovilton, in the air-to-air mode “the big winner is the BVR track-while-scan capability.” He told IDR that “we don’t require to single-target track: if you put out a lot of continuous-wave energy, this trips a radar warning receiver, but with our BVR capability the other guy has no idea you are engaging. We are flying a 1960s platform but knocking down 1980s platforms all the time.” Hawkins maintains that the Blue Vixen/Sea Harrier combination is “the best air-defense aircraft in Europe – a view shared by all who have come up against it.”

As far as Pylons and what kind of launchers they have on them:
A Smiths Industries weapon stores management system ensures the correct selection and release of weapons. The aircraft has five weapon stations. Weapons are mounted on Frazer-Nash rail launchers, Raytheon LAU-106A ejection-launchers and Varo LAU-7 rail launchers.

Additional info:

Exercise Flying Fish was a three-week Air defence exercise, one of a regular series organised by the nations of the Five Powers Defence Arrangement – the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and Singapore.

Ten Australian F-18Ds, seven Malaysian MiG-29s, eight Hawk 108s and 208s, four Royal Malaysian Air Force F-18As, five RN Sea Harriers and a number of aircraft from the Singaporean Air Force took part.

Each RN pilot faced the MiG-29 in combat, and found the Sea Harrier to be a good match for the MiG – thanks to the Blue Vixen radar, the Sea Harrier won every time in beyond visual range engagements, and also scored some notable successes when converting to the visual fighting arena.

I am hoping the MOD aren’t stupid enough to send them to the scrap heap or sell them to India or Thailand.

Keep them intact or send them to Arizona if there aren’t any place for them to mothball in UK.
About 18 of them are newly built I think newest one being delivered on 1999. And rest of them are conversions. But still they aren’t that old, so keeping them in storage will not hurt them too badly. Oldest one being about 20 year old.

Looks like something out of Star Wars.
What happen LM decided to use George Lucas/ILM to design their weapons.

Originally posted by google
Yeah, copycats. First it was SOC and I. Now Castor and IP Freely decided to use them. :p

Come on, I just wanted to match my avatar with my signature.

😀