londonclangerCraig,
I have to admit to passing by on your query earlier because I expected a Lancaster expert would be along sometime soon to provide a more authoritative answer. I can only agree with what “gregh” stated on your previous thread.An answer lies between the covers of Ian Reed’s excellent “Lancaster Operations – One squadron’s contribution to the bomber offensive” – effectively a history of No.100 Squadron from December 1942 to May 1945.
ED559 and crew have the tragic distinction of going missing on the first operational mission on 4th April 1943 – target St Nazaire.
ED559’s codes worn were JA-D on this raid. Individual codes letters were reissued, thus “D” was carried by ED710 from 26th March until 13th May 1943.
Approximately twenty-five No.100 Sqdn Lancasters are listed as carrying “JA” squadron codes during March and April 1943 – plus another ten carried “FZ” squadron codes (“A” to “K”) during May and June 1943. The better known “HW” codes would appear to have been first taken up during May.
It would appear that serious questions about aspects of RAF or Commonwealth squadron histories are best placed on forums such as RAFCommands.
Tony Broadhurst
Tony, many thanks for the detailed reply and for answering this puzzle.
C
londonclangerTurning into a bit of a conundrum this.
On this previous thread – see response #18
And I came across this model of ED559 – not evidence but you would think that the modeller would have got the unit code spot on.
Additionally, another Lancaster – ED549 – on the same operation as ED559 crash landed at Plungar. I’ve seen this as HW-S. I just wish the IWM collection that has a photo of this Lancaster was view-able.
Would dearly love to get to the bottom of this one…
londonclangerHi Janine
I’d love to see any photos or paperwork you have. I’ve tried to email via this forum but not sure if those messages are reaching you. You can email via craigalansmith at hotmail dot com.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Craig
londonclangerI’ve created the starter site http://www.ed559.co.uk where I’ve collated some of the information I have to date. I’m still to visit RAF Hendon and the National Archives (to see if I can see the MRES record), and am also awaiting the copying of files from Australia.
It’s a good start and if you have some time please pop along and have a look.
Cheers
londonclangerI have a few more questions to ask fellow forum members. Apologies in advance if these seem somewhat long winded but it’s all relatively new to me.
3. Delivery: On a gardening op such as ED559 was on I’m guessing that, depending on the number carried, they would have a target area/plan. Would I be correct in assuming they would drop them singularly every so often (to avoid all being swept later)?
4. Crash: on the balance of probability it is likely that ED559 came down in the sea. The aircraft was relatively new (delivered the month before) but I’m interested in opinions and thoughts about what could have caused the loss. I appreciate it is conjecture and we’ll probably never know but I’m very interested in possible reasons (engine failure, ordnance problem, enemy action (though so far I’ve found no info to back this up), etc).
I’ve come across the March 4/5 1943 Night Raids Report which gives some interesting information:
Minelaying: …one aircraft did not return from the Gironde Estuary.
Enemy Defences: …Light flak and searchlights were active on both banks of the Gironde Estuary.
Casualties: …There is no evidence to indicate where or how the missing Lancaster came to grief.
The Gironde Estuary is right where the island of Oleron, where Richard is buried. I suppose that based on the above evidence there is a chance that ED559 was downed by flak. Now I wonder where you go to check German flak reports…?
londonclangerI have a few more questions to ask fellow forum members. Apologies in advance if these seem somewhat long winded but it’s all relatively new to me.
1. Ordnance carried: from research there were various sea-mines (Mks I to IV being available in March 1943) that could be released from a Lancaster. Is there any way to determine what ED559 was carrying on this sortie and how many?
I downloaded the 100 Squadron record of events for March 1943 and it says that eight Lancaster IIIs took off and that four (D (Richard Curle’s aircraft), J, S and U) were carrying five 1,500 lb. mines. Oddly, it says the four other Lancs were carrying just four mines (I wonder why the difference). Looking at the reports for other aircraft, the average height from which the mines were dropped is ~800 feet (a total of 22 mines being successfully dropped during the mission). There is no mention of the actual target area in the report.
londonclangerI have a few more questions to ask fellow forum members. Apologies in advance if these seem somewhat long winded but it’s all relatively new to me.
1. Ordnance carried: from research there were various sea-mines (Mks I to IV being available in March 1943) that could be released from a Lancaster. Is there any way to determine what ED559 was carrying on this sortie and how many?
2. Safety: was dropping sea mines a relatively straight forward op? On average at what height would they be released (I’ve read that they could be deployed from very low heights right up to 15,000 feet).
3. Delivery: On a gardening op such as ED559 was on I’m guessing that, depending on the number carried, they would have a target area/plan. Would I be correct in assuming they would drop them singularly every so often (to avoid all being swept later)?
4. Crash: on the balance of probability it is likely that ED559 came down in the sea. The aircraft was relatively new (delivered the month before) but I’m interested in opinions and thoughts about what could have caused the loss. I appreciate it is conjecture and we’ll probably never know but I’m very interested in possible reasons (engine failure, ordnance problem, enemy action (though so far I’ve found no info to back this up), etc).
5. Name: I’ve seen a book entry that denotes ED559 as D-Dog on this operation. Would the aircraft have has a separate name (akin to “Phantom of the Ruhr”) and if so, does anyone know it?
I’m sure I’ll have further questions as I research and hope members don’t mind me asking them in the future.
Is passing I found this photo of another member of the crew.
Should Duncan Campbell still be visiting this forum, I would be extremely interested to see a picture of his uncle, Harry Riding.
londonclangerThank you for your kind offer of a photograph – I’d love to see more photos of the grave and cemetery. Alas, we have not made the trip as my father’s health has not been good enough of late. I am going to Normandy this year but it’s too far to drive to La Rochelle. So, I’ll have to make a special trip to see Richard’s grave and pay my respects.
I found this great site that included a photo.
londonclangerMany, many thanks for that, and the quick response. Is the Loss Card available to view online? If not, how does one go abut accessing it?
londonclangerHi there
I’m doing further research into ED559 (building a site about the loss) and I’m hoping someone can assist me in determining the crew roles of the men on this flight.
So far, I’ve got this, but any help in fine tuning would be very much appreciated.
Position Location
Pilot (Curle) Seated on the left hand side of the cockpit.
Flight Engineer (?) Seated next to the pilot on a folding seat
Navigator (Hart?) Seated at a table facing to the port (left) of the aircraft and directly behind the pilot and flight engineer
Bomb Aimer (Challoner) Seated when operating the front gun turret, but positioned in a laying position when directing the pilot on to the aiming point prior to releasing the bomb load
Wireless Operator (Crapp / Riding) Seated facing forward and directly beside the navigator
Mid-Upper Gunner (Crapp / Riding / Gooch / Durdin) Seated in the mid upper turret
Rear Gunner (Crapp / Riding / Gooch / Durdin) “Tail End Charlie” seated in the rear turret.
londonclangerSome more detail re – Richard Curle
Hello. Some additional background. I did some research on Richard Curle a few years ago whilst aiding my father write his memoirs. The picture added here belongs to my father – I sent it on to a member of a different forum that helped me research Richard’s service record.
Richard lived opposite my father in Gateshead and though 10 years older then my father, he fondly remembers Richard and his wife (Richard was an engineer and had a lovely two-seater roadster my father recalls). My father was incredibly saddened (to put it mildly) upon learning of Richard’s death in 1943 and though in a reserved occupation at the time (he worked making steam winches) tried to enlist in the RAF (to get even with the Germans…). Unfortunately, my father wore glasses and the RAF turned him down. However, he enlisted in the Royal Navy and became a signalman and served on Atlantic convoys, on a navigation ML taking the troops into Gold Beach during D-Day and in the Med and Adriatic.
My father is thankfully still with us and we’ve been planning for a few years to get down to see Richard’s grave. We may add it to our semi-regular visit to Normandy this year.
I hope this adds some extra detail beyond that available.
From an Australian source.
Aircraft Type: Lancaster
Serial number: ED 599
Radio call sign: HW – S
Unit: 100 Sqn RAF
Summary:
Lancaster ED 599 of 100 Sqn RAF took off at 1838 hours from RAF Station Grimsby, Lincolnshire, on 4 March 1943, being one of four Squadron aircraft to carry out an operational sweep over Western France, from Cherbourg to Bordeaux and return. Two of the aircraft returned safely, one crashed and nothing further was heard of ED 599.
Crew:
RAF Flt Lt Curle, R A, Captain (Pilot)
RAF PO Challoner, C S (Air Bomber)
RAF Sgt Hart, D A (Observer)
RAAF 411113 FO Crapp, E C (Wireless Operator/Air Gunner)
RAAF 403699 FO Riding, H (Wireless Operator/Air Gunner)
RAAF 416149 Sgt Durdin, G W (Air Gunner)
RAF Sgt Gooch, D L (Air Gunner)
A 1948 report stated that Flt Lt Curle’s body was recovered from the sea near St Nicholas on 3 April 1943 and buried at Chateau Cemetery, Isle d’Oleron. St Nicholas is on the north-west coast of France approx 30 miles North West of La Rochelle.
Ile d’Oleron is located off the French coast about 35 miles south east of St Nicholas. No trace of the aircraft was found which it was assumed crashed in the sea, with the remaining crew members lost at sea.
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