A Saudi arms deal where dirty money is involved. Does this really surprise anybody? The British government seems to be in a very difficult “lose-lose position” here. What will this embarrising story cost Bae in terms of bad PR? Is it worth it?

This story proves that there are so many other factors than performance and cost that influence governments in their decision to choose fighters. It would be interesting to know how many fighter deals that are settled this way.

Personally I think it´s very bad that western democracies like Britain are willing to sell arms to states like Saudi Arabia. The arms business is a very cynical business without much ethics. The question of ethics is also very absent on this forum IMHO!

I think these two countries will either go for the Gripen or the Eurofighter but not for the JSF. The Lightning II doesn’t reflect their needs.

Good point. Why would a country like Finland be interested in a stealthy strike aircraft like the JSF? Finland seems to be only looking for fighters as their current fleet of F-18Cs doesn´t have strike capability.

The list mentioned is probably LM´s wish list for potential export customers.

In a few months the Gripen is going to participate to a new aircraft contest for the Hellenic Air Force. Though we know that Typhoon will be the choice, an EJ200-engined Gripen would be also sellected (only if Gripen International provides high offsets) for Greece cannot maintain twin-engined aircrafts ONLY.Because JSF is American-led programme, which means restrictions over technology transfer to Greece (see balance of powers in the Aegean Airspace), thus we have only the Gripen alternative. And because a corporation must make profits, it is necessary to make this investment.

Sorry, I don´t really get your point. You say that Greece is going to choose the Typhoon? Do you seriously suggest that SAAB with that in mind is going to invest tons of billions in an EJ200 engined version of the Gripen in order so that they MIGHT win an order (of how many Gripens, maybe 20-30?) at very high offsets?

Can you suggest why SAAB should participate in this Greek contest? If Greece cannot maintain two engined aircraft ONLY they should be willing to pay for the cost of an EJ200 engined Gripen themselves.

1) Better offset (I can hardly believe it, but that’s what the Austrians say)
2) Lower through life and support costs
3) Offers commonality with neighbour and potential strategic partner
4) Better A-A capability, especially BVR
5) Sends a clear signal about not simply being non-aligned and neutral, and that Austria is prioritising defence
6) It’s one up on Czech, Hungary, etc.

1) Offset deals are a matter of negotiaton and political will. Sounds more to me like Austrian politicians defending a heavily criticized deal to the taxpayers.
2) I serioulsy doubt that.
3) As far as I know the Austrians sometimes train with the Swiss (F-18) and the Hungarian (Mig-29?, Gripen).
4) I don´t know, maybe true. Anyway not a critieria applicable to European countries like Austria who needs an aircraft for air policing work.
5) Who exactly are they trying to convince? Is the acquisition of 18 aircraft of any kind a signal to the rest of the world that Austria is prioritising defence? As far as I know Austria is still as neutral as before and there´s nothing simpel about that.
6) What do you mean by that? Czech and Hungary are both peace loving countries which are members of both NATO and the EU. Are you seriously suggesting a possible conflict between Austria and these countries? :confused:

BTW, are you maybe employed by British Aerospace? 🙂

Its not about being bombed by a foreign power. Its about air policing. Most of the violations come from German airspace anyway.

So the primary task of the Austrian AF will in the future be sending up their Typhoons to deport German Typhoons intruding Austrian airspace. The irony!

Another point: Why do people compare Austria to African nations or New Zealand? Austria is among the richest countries on earth and there is a lot of air traffic. Compare Austria to Switzerland, Sweden or Finland. They operate a lot more advanced fighters than Austria does.

I get the feeling you´re Austrian? No one has compared Austria to African nations in any way. Austria could afford a lot of military aircraft if they were willing to. The problem is that the Austrian population is not willing to pay for expensive milititary equipment no matter how advanced it is. Maybe that is why Austria is wealthy? :rolleyes:

You still haven´t explained why the Typhoon does the job better than for instance the Gripen?