I guess you have been busy? As its been big news for the past month or so! The CVF’s are now going to be equipped with Catapults, Arresting Gear, and yes F-35C’s!

You of all people should know how busy I have been mate- how long did it take me to get you the other required info you wanted! At least you got it in the end- BTW how is that discussion going? As I mentioned not only was the LSM MkII in that book, but also the DDL in model form which had the American weapons and in drawing which had the British weapons.

October 20th, in the SDSR (Strategic Defence & Security Review).

Cat & trap carriers only one of which will be in service at any one time with a chance (stated to be small) that one might be sold, delayed entry into service to allow for the changes, F-35C for both FAA & RAF, Harriers to retire immediately (it’s just happened), Ark Royal to retire ASAP (now tied up awaiting decommissioning), a Bay to be sold, only one of Bulwark & Albion to be in service at any one time . . . .

Where have you been? The moon?

Italy officially wants about 60 F-35B.

The revived interest in discussion of the implications of cancelling F-35B is prompted by the British decision.

No not the moon, just all over my state working and getting little in return for it! Starting my own Strategic Defence Review Center seems very very promising now. Wonder if I could get the military interested :o:o:o

Selling one of the QE’s wouldn’t be hard- there has been much talk lately of PA.2 in French service, here is a chance for them to grab it. As for Cat and Trap, I wonder if this decision was forced buy the fact that the RN need a credible Ship based AWAC plane and the only one available in the world is the E-2 of which the D model is now coming on line in USN service and performing well above designed perameters!

Harriers gone??? Who’s running this show- drunken Monkeys?:mad::mad::mad:
The once mighty Royal Navy will be reduced to nothing but a tatty old tug armed with a slingshot and a pile of rocks if those pollies don’t start getting their heads on straight! I have always believed that if you want to be a pollie, you need to serve in the forces first! So what’s to become of the harriers now- they have recently just been upgraded, or are we talking about just the JHF service aboard?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_191634.pdf

Pages 21-23 (ships), 26-28 (aircraft).

There has also been much discussion to the effect that the Bay class LSD(A) to be sold fits the RAN’s logistics ship requirement almost perfectly, and will likely be available for about half the designated budget… in 2012.

Indeed it does fit the bill and the availability would suit us highly, but 1 thing precludes it from entering our service… Second Hand. Australia and indeed the RAN have this thing now against Second Hand military products, even if they are new- the fact that someone has used it before we have simply will not do for our service- poppycosh if you ask me!

Thanks for the link mate, have just been reading it and alot of it does seem to make sence- though why retire the MRA-4 Nimrod fleet before they enter service is a risky move, and relying on other assets- hmmmmmm red flag going up here!

Canning the Herk J’s- wow, that’s serious, they were looking forward to a three leveled transport fleet

[QUOTE=Scooter;1675808]

Italy officially wants about 60 F-35B.

The Italian Navy still wants the F-35B but the Air Force has expressed an interest in purchasing the F-35A instead. (noting official)

I had to re read this in order for it to make sence- now it does! That’s right the Harriers in MMI service are actually under the AMI’s ownership aren’t they, well if the AMI want the A’s then how will they fly them off the carriers? Sounds like the AMI’s getting small man syndrome yet again!

In recent years we have seen Medvedev posturing military might under the carefully guided hand of our old friend Putin 9guess the old saying is true- once in power, always in power). We have seen deployments of Russia’s once powerful military might try to bring back the glorious old days where bombers could fly around the world and ships could sail the high seas at will, truth is- look what it cost them. Russia is still to this day paying off those Cold War debts, so we know that Russia hasn’t got the money.

Projects are being developed with a view to co-production at a later time, India is the key point here. Russia will not build anything new on a grand scale anytime soon- the best they could muster up would be a class of Small Frigates at best in order to start replacing some of the older Soviet ships still in service. I would go so far as to say that these vessels would be more of a GP role than many of the dedicated vessels that once rules the Red Banner Fleet.

Russia wouldn’t sell AK to China, there are already fears that China is getting ready to walk in to Russia and take over. However sale of AK to India is not out of the question- though it’s a sure bet that India would agree to buy it then haggle for the next 2 decades over the price, finally scoring a bargin on a rusted out old hulk, then try to sue Russia claiming they didn’t get what they paid for! Another contender for AK would be Russia’s new friend in the South- Brazil. They could buy her in part Barter (Brazilian coffee, copper and rubber are much valued in Russia atm) and Brazil could replace Sao Paulo with a decent carrier that actually works and has little time on the clock. The benefits of having this vessel in MdB service would be huge and finally the MdB could realise that fleeting dream of having a power projection ship under their flag.

As for the PAK-FA naval, this would only fly if a major investor were to show some interest in the project. India are looking at the PAK-FA but not the Naval varient due the the Naval Tejas coming on strength, so basically if the PAK-FA were to become a reality, sale of AK would also include a small number of PAK-FA’s- hmmmmm wonder where I heard of a deal like that before???:rolleyes:

wont the RAAF have theres before the RAF?

Being a Teir 1 partner I think they would, how ever They are opting for the B models and not the C models

Well, some have stated the advantages of the larger winged F-35C over the Landbased F-35A. It will be interesting to see how the F-35C does in RAF Service. Which, has often been mentioned as a replacement for the Tornado Fleet.:D

Refer point above!

I personally hope and think we will go with the F-35C. most of our airfields already have arresting wires and assorted equipment

Indeed, the C model does seem to meet our requirements a lot better and also fits better into our standing practice- ie hose and drouge not boom.

Personally, I think Australia is the perfect case for the F-35B. As a small number could be very useful operating from its new LHD’s. This combined with a existing fleet of F-35A’s. Make such an acquisition very attractive….

Nonetheless, I was just pointing out that many on this forum seem to disagree with that assessment.:confused:

Indeed and that is the case being pointed out atm, as for those on here who disagree- let them, logic dictates that if a force is to be projected, then an organic air componant is a natural conclusion! Any fool wishing to stick to old ways would be blind not to see a clear advantage this type of operation could bring to battle management!

Many have ruled out the possibility of Australia acquiring the F-35B’s for its LHD’s. Yet, I am not so sure.

I too man not too sure- 75 A’s are currently projects for purchase with the remaining 25 still to be finalised, there has been some talk around of these being B’s and operating off the LHD’s as most here would remember I have spoken about

under current plans any F-35B buy will be in addition to the 100 total planned, and will most likely be 20-25 aircraft.

the 100 planned total represents the replacements for the 71 Legacy Hornets, and the 24 Super Hornets + attrition and ARDU airframes

I hope it is the fleet air arm who operates them, I’m longing for the red checkerboard tails again:cool:

Very worse case a joint operation by 4sqn and VFA-805

As for an additional purchase, see above comment.

As for your Red Checkerboards

I’ll see them and raise you a Black Horsey head

Gotta love that camo

More sites relating to the offer of Ark to the RAN
Aircraft Carrier Name

While it too mentions that Ark was “Reportedly offered”, I can honestly remember that she was, I remember the news papers at the time and how PM Frazer was delighted to have accepted the offer. The deal stagnated over price and time of delivery- HMAS Melbourne couldn’t undergo any further refits or modernisations due to the extreme age of not only the vessel but of it’s componants, besides the Skyhawks were seen as Lacking in terms of fleet defence compared to it’s contemporaries.

A few months after Ark was offered the deal changed to Vince which could be delivered almost immediately which suited our needs perfectly. At the time of the Falklands conflict, we had a change in leadership and one of the first things the Hawke government did was a defence review which stated that Australia could maintain it’s local area dominance without a carrier force- this timed just well with the RN who now needed all three carriers should they wish to stave off any further attacks on the Falklands or any other part of the dominion. It was this SDR in Australia that changed our armed forces to the structure we have today:
All fixed wing combat aircraft are to be operated by the RAAF, Land based Helos supporting troop movement are to be under the Army and over water helo operations under control of the RAN. Some anomolies were present until finally corrected in the mid 90’s with the Carribous finally going to the Air Force, and the Navigational Training HS-748’s of the Navy’s 723 Sqdn finally retired.

The question today is if the RAN are to restart fixed wing ops off their capable LHD’s who will control these planes and how many will there be? Many a debate has been on this subject, and F-35B’s are rhoumored to have a role in our future capabilities with 20 being bought for the RAN out of the order for 100 to be purchased, but until the order is placed, we really won’t know.

But bottom line- I remember Ark being offered to us

Bager: The USN’s unsuccessful trials in this field inn the late 80’s lead to the project inclusion of Metal Storm during the mid 90’s, it was Metal Storm who were able to bring the project back on track and make it what it is today.

Stan: Yes BAE are leading the way, they have invested the money which was taken away in the defence cuts of the 90’s. The British know a good system when they see one- Question remains- will they also employ this weapon system on their vessels in the future (refit or constructed with)?

Australia wouldn’t buy this vessel! It does not meet any requirement we have, she would be hard to support in our service, would need a major and I do mean MAJOR, refit in order to be useful to us (fitting of Tropical aircon for starters would mean ripping the guts out of the vessel). Parts would have to be made to order in local shops due to them not being made now- though some parts might come from Vince since she is destined for the breakers.

Finally Australia would not buy this vessel because it would be an insult to the RAN, the Australian People and former members of RAN Carrier groups: For those who don’t know what I am going on about, This vessel was offered to Australia as she was deemed excessive to RN needs, then came the Falklands War and the Thatcher Government did a quick turn around and decided to cancel the sale just as the ink was drying on the contract. As a result, HMAS Melbourne (R21) retired with no successor, the RAN Fixed Wing FAA flew in to history and many decent chaps were paid off (One found a new life in the RAAF and is now it’s head- Mark Binskin).

If it is to be sold, I hope Canada buys her, they could do with reactivating their long lost service. Though with what happened to their Subs, I think it might be a long time before the Candians buy British second hand stock ever again!

My ex used always say to me that competing companies would end up looking like the same product due to the evolution of design- this is why many car companies have to make refining “Traits” on their products in order for everyone to distinguish them from their competition.

I can see the advantage of the UkN having these vessels and paying off the larger Frigates, especially those with links back to the Cold War.

Yes Ukraine does need this project to establish itself in the ship building industry- since the Soviets died off, Ukraine has had ship yards but no activity of significant mention- so those who were employed will now return to their tools and the Country can start to get a return on industry.

The comment about Marketing these to both India and Pakistan is interesting- both countries would want to build them in house and neither would buy a ship the other has in service. Still, looking further afield- Africa and South America would be interested, Maybe even some South East Asian countries could finally update their navies (Phillipines, Cambodia come to mind here)