Quoting the official report of operation odyssey dawn might not enlighten you all that much on what was going on during operation harmattan
And a blog-spot will? Odyssey Dawn, Harmattan and Ellamy all fell under Unified Protector and that report details them all. Taking out a SAM battery would be considerably easier after someone else has dealt with the radar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unified_Protector
The goal is also to terminate all those bad guys hiding nearby. Beside you’re not wasting money if you destroy something that could cost you far more.
A Toyota pickup costs more than an AASM?
I was sarcastic. in both my posts. Maybe by the time the Typhoon was engaged it came to mostly plinking old BMPs & pickup trucks, but the Rafale got in the thick of things before any SEAD had been done by anyone.
The Rafale was involved in SEAD too (SCALP-EG) and attacked at least one SAM site with AASM.Nic
The official report doesn’t mention anything about AASMs being used on SAMs. The French conducted one early sortie against regime troop positions and were engaged by one SA-8, a radio command SAM, which was out of range and was left in tact.
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR600/RR676/RAND_RR676.pdf
Throughout Unified Protector, ACC presented a flight of six F-16CJs from the
77th and 55th squadrons of the 20th Fighter Wing, based at Shaw AFB, South Carolina,
to USAFE’s 31st Fighter Wing at Aviano AB, Italy. In conjunction with a similar
number of U.S. Navy EF-18G Growlers and Italian Air Force Tornado ECR aircraft,
these planes provided the bulk of the coalition’s suppression/destruction of enemy air
defenses (SEAD/DEAD) capabilities.6Initial strike missions began at 3 p.m. EST, when U.S. and British surface ships
and submarines fired Tomahawk cruise missiles (TLAMs) at air defense (IADS) targets,
including SA-5 sites, early warning radar sites, key communication nodes, and
other military facilities primarily along the Libyan coast (see Figure 5.2). On the first
day of Operation Odyssey Dawn, two U.S. guided missile destroyers and four submarines
fired more than 120 Tomahawk missiles at more than 20 targets. The heaviest
concentration of Tomahawk strikes took place near Tripoli and Misrata, although the
coalition also struck areas near Sirte and Zuwarah. Admiral Gortney reported that
the strikes were “very effective in significantly degrading the regime’s air defense capability
to include their ability to launch many of their SA-5s which are the long-range
surface-to-air missiles, the SA-3s and the SA-2s.”56 Additional air-to-ground strikes
from 15 USAF F-15Es and F-16s, and AV-8Bs from USS Kearsarge, along with coalition
partners and U.S. Navy EA-18G Growlers providing electronic warfare support,
took place some 10 miles south of Benghazi, where the Libyan regime forces targeted
by the initial French attack had not yet completely halted their advance on the city.In their post-war assessment, the French point at this first strike to downplay their
reliance on U.S. assets for SEAD. This assessment is correct for this particular raid,
since no losses occurred. Libyan air defenses nonetheless identified the French raid
and engaged it with an SA-8 surface-to-air missile system, which fortunately was out
of range.12 It is, however, questionable that such a risky tactic would have worked for
the whole campaign, as the French were probably not ready to take significant risks of
aircraft losses. Therefore, this opening move might denote a divergence of operational
habits. The French, like the British, are used to making do with less.Pilots and targeting professionals used dynamic targeting and SCAR tactics to
search for and destroy enemy forces.67 General Woodward recounted that as one of
the first SCAR packages approached Benghazi on March 19, a HARM missile fired
from an F-16CJ aircraft employing the advanced avionics/launcher interface computer
(ALIC) destroyed an activated SA-8 tactical SAM system.68Despite France’s early accomplishment, the first days of operations relied heavily
on U.S. assets, especially ones that the French were unable to provide, including
SEAD aircraft and Tomahawk cruise missiles that conducted deep strikes against critical
infrastructure. (Of the 199 sea-launched cruise missiles fired in the first ten days,
192 were American and seven were British.* None of the missiles were French, as the
French naval equivalent, SCALP Naval, had yet to enter service.)
*This says 12 were British?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8400079/Libya-Navy-running-short-of-Tomahawk-missiles.html
No I haven’t.
So how does Storm Shadow take out pickups, when it can’t be re-targeted in flight yet. Storm shadows were used on fixed targets and stationary targets like large SAM. In fact, according to the official report, all the SEAD was done by TLAMs from US and Royal Navy and Storm Shadows.
Agreed, AASM brings more flexibility to target personal , defense positions, vehicles, possibly boats. Brimstone make sense, as per its origin, in rich vehicle targets environment, but I doubt it is efficient in dense urban , and against personal or reinforced defense position.
Brimstone has been used an awful lot in that environment in Libya and Syria. Used to target single rooms in building complexes. Obviously a bunker requires more than a 9kg HEAT warhead, but then 250lb bombs are generally too small for proper bunkers too. Brimstone has also been used very effectively in trials against FIAC/power boats. Bombs struggle against these fast, manoeuvrable targets. It can also be salvo fired, as many as 12 at a time. I believe the US is developing JAGM as a similar capability. And the other plus is that it provides for force commonality, bombs can’t be launched from surface vehicles/vessels and are really effective when launched from helicopters either.
Imperial Russia was a colonial power – but its colonies were all reachable by land. When Spain was conquering much of the Americas, Russia couldn’t conquer any overseas territories, since its only access to open ocean was in the arctic.
Aircraft carriers & the like aren’t for protecting Russia’s ‘mainland and territorial seas’. They’re for projecting power overseas. If Russia was really interested only in territorial defence it’d scrap the largest units of its current fleet, but there’s no sign of it.
But if they had overseas interests they’d have more carriers. One really doesn’t cut it. The large vessels are probably for the same reason as the large fighters, lot of land/coastline to cover. The Artic is probably their only real overseas interest.
British Harrier jets were armed with AIM-9L which was an important factor in the Harrier’s success in the war. Yak-38 were armed with R-60.
Nope. More to do with levels of training and flying expertise. If the Argentinians could actually fly, the air war would have been a lot harder.
It may boil down to, Exocet vs AK-630, who would win?
Wouldn’t fancy the missile’s chances against the 6 AK-630s on the Slava. And the Soviets wouldn’t have been anywhere near as kind in the type of victory they’d inflict. The UK left the Argentinian mainland alone.
As far as I know there will be a Paveway IV Mk2, which will be a low collateral version of the Paveway IV. The advantage of Brimstone, besides cost, is the ability to engage fast, manoeuvrable ground/sea targets. In that regard it’s unparalleled. It’s also less than half the weight of any 250lb bomb equivalent.
Well the X-47B pretty much is a mini-bomber, sort of like an unmanned B-2 scaled down to F-117A-size.
The UCLASS is a prototype tech demonstration. The LRS-B aircraft has completed the PDR and is an effort many times that of even a full up UCLASS program. If Northrop wins the UCLASS they may use some of the open systems stuff they develop for the LRS-B perhaps, but definitely not the other way around. The LRSB article will be in the air by the time the Navy gets serious on the UCLASS 😉
It does hand Northrop a bid advantage on the UCLASS though, because in being able to reuse stuff, the combined development costs will be reduced.
Not in service yet. Last report I saw was that Sweden had a very small stock, bought for the testing & integration programme, & the head of the Swedish air force said that in the unlikely event of someone attacking Sweden or an equivalent emergency, he’d release those few missiles for use.
Presumably he’d do the same with production missiles between delivery & the official in-service date, but otherwise they won’t be considered to be in service until operational units are fully set up for them & they’ve been delivered to squadrons.
Oh okay, that’s what confused me.
Not sure you’ll find too many Rafale pilots agreeing with your conclusion Aurel.
In a game of top trumps you are probably correct however. Reality is not top trumps however.
To be honest, some of the facts presented in these kinds of discussion are actually worse than Top Trumps.
Only Gripen has Meteor in service as far as I know.
Would RuAF stay without ARH all the time?
Well I know, I was kind of dubious with the opinion too. I’d be surprised if they had no ARH AAMs time now.
Mmmm… why should anyone want to promote homosexuality? You’re either homosexual or not. As pointless ‘promoting’ it as it would be to promote heterosexuality.
Good question. I think the laws are more against educating them about it. But they made a big fuss about it in the UK during the last Winter Olympics in Sochi. Meanwhile Qatar wins the World Cup bid, and the only thing they find to mention about that is various corruption allegations.
But hey, there’s a lot of jobs in the RSAF sale I guess.
Is it not possible for the OP to spend his time trawling through the myriad posts on this topic rather than waste everyone’s time here?
It’s precisely because France isn’t getting the F35 that they have worked so hard at making it much better than Typhoon in the A2G role.
Of course it’s not a case of F35 versus Typhoon now, but F35 and Typhoon needing each other. Whether the Rafale is as good as Typhoon and F35 working together is doubtful. The answer to that question is to be found with FCAS.
Bingo. Governments aren’t in the habit of spending extra money to fulfill the same requirement twice.