At any time were you threatened by the Eagle’s energy state?

No. Because of his relatively slow speed, our speed advantage gave us the energy edge.

Do you think the Eagle could keep up with the 104 in this type of “high Mach” engagement i.e. if you had paired with an Eagle and you both were doing DACT with say, a Tomcat as the adversary? Am curious to know how the Eagle would have performed compared to the Zipper in this type of engagement.

Generally, yes. Just remember that when the F-15 operates at very high speed, it loses its turn rate and radius advantages and becomes just another “fast mover”.

The G model you flew had the 16,000 lbs thrust 79?

Yes. My Dash One says “approximately 15,800lbs”.

What the weight difference between the G and C models?

The G was a little heavier…the exact amount varies with what source you choose to read…roughly 2000lbs.

Was he in trail? How close?

For starters, this happened over 30 years ago…my memory of all the details maybe isn’t the best!!

He was in close fingertip, but aft a little of the normal position.

How far did/would you have extended? Elevation/vertical change as well? What is a hook turn?

1-2nm, level. A hook turn is a hard turn at max sustained g…Once I slowed down, this was about 7 g turn.

He would initiate his turn after you merged? Horizontal turn and at what speed?

No, he separated at about 16nm from the F-15…about when we figured the F-15 pilots would be locking us up and giving me their full attention. I don’t know how he turned…a level turn, I imagine in order to keep me close to the horizon.

What altitude were you at? What was the Mach number?

Not sure about the altitude…medium, maybe around 10,000′. Speed was about 700KIAS.

Did he start the turn really early?

He may have started an early turn…but my speed negated that…and he ended up behind me with negative closure.

What was your separation distance at the merge?

About 1-2nm.

What speed did you max out at when you extended?

Don’t remember…700KIAS+.

Was Hartmut above or below the Eagle?

Not sure…probably co-altitude…at that point, we were all basically in the same altitude plane.

Pipper was placed on the planform of the Eagle above or below?

I don’t remember.

break turn in the same direction as when they converged on you?

Yes. To the right, as I recall. The F-15 was off my right side at the merge and I kept it there as I extended.

Did you maintain M.85 or were you accelerating hard to get the shot and then extend away? Wanting a lot of speed?

Once I pulled my nose into lead for the gun attack, I raised the flaps, went full burner and began accelerating again.

Vertically or horizontally… above or below the Eagle?

Probably below the F-15 at first…I think the F-15 went up in his break.

You separated vertically as well? Climbed as you broke away or unloaded?

We both disengaged in a descent…pushed it out to 700KIAS+. The F-15 tried to get a AIM-9 shot as we extended but our speed and distance were too much.

I still don’t get the big fuzz here. Most of aerial fights end up by an opponent killed without having realized the attacker was there. You don’t need a superior aircraft if your opponent doesn’t even fight back. Even a MiG-19 would do well.

Excellent point…and one that has for the most part been ignored in this discussion.

There’s an old saying here in the US…It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. By and large, that holds true in A2A combat.

The primary factor in success or failure is the pilot, not the aircraft. As said here, more often than not, the victim never saw it coming. And when both adversaries did see each other, it was pilot skill and determination that usually carried the fight.

All of this talk about fancy avionics has its place, no doubt about that. But, please remember that these features are nothing but tools. The skill of the workman is still the most important part of the equation.

alfakilo:
AK , the F-22 ‘s short range IR missiles are stored inside the bays…

There is nothing in the term “dogfight” that stipulates what type of armament may or may not be used. You stipulated a visual scenario and then asserted that the F-22 has a lesser capability. I asked why and you responded with an opinion about the use of IR missiles which others have since taken issue with.

I’m more interested in capabilities other than armament type…what is it about the F-22 that you use to rest your opinion on?

Just curious…but do you base your opinions on actual experience or just what you’ve read or heard about?

alfakilo :

The dogfight starts sometimes after the first visual contact , when aircraft try to put themselves in position to fire a short range IR missile , way before the cannon comes into play .

Do you agree ?

Cheers .

What I think doesn’t matter.

Given your definition, why the F-22 lesser capability?

Scorpion82 :

…Anyway the instantaneous AoA is certainly more useful, not to say that sustained high AoA in wings level flight is pretty much useless in any combat situation.

True , I agree .

Help me understand what you are saying here…

What exactly is “sustained high AoA in wings level flight” and why is it “useless in any combat situation”?

I beg to disagree . In a real dogfight , I don ‘t give much chance to the Raptor :diablo:

Interesting.

What, in your estimation, is a real dogfight?

Originally Posted by J Boyle…
I’m told by a AF friend that there was no ELT signal, which basically means he didn’t eject.

Ok, that pretty mouch settles it. I think most of us here guessed it would eventually turn out the pilot never ejected and died in the crash. R.I.P.

It settles absolutely nothing.

When I ejected, the seat beacon malfunctioned. When I landed in the North Sea, my survival radio batteries shorted out before I could get a MAYDAY out. Nobody heard me punch out, nobody saw me punch out. But I still got found.

Spitfireman has it right.

It ain’t over till its over.

Maybe we should consider other ways of looking at this question…

Have there been successful air operations against insurgencies? If so, what made them successful? What aircraft were used…and under what conditions were these assets operated?

Do COIN operations always have the same mission objective?

What scale of COIN operations are we discussing? The protection of friendly troops in direct contact with insurgents? Or a broader scale plan to attack insurgent forces in general?