SameerI believe that Israel had an AESA radar displayed at Aero India?
SameerRebuilding aircraft is expensive, and if the airframes have been worn out a bit it might not be cost-effective (not that i have the impression that the IAF is tight in it’s budget in any way 😉 ).
Besides, rebuilding an aircraft is different from making a new one. I can imagine HAL doesn’t have the time or capability to rebuilt the K to MKI, and i can also imagine that Irkutsk asks a price per airframe which isn’t all that far from the price of a new HAL-built MKI.
True enough, the Ks have logged so many hours since 1996, I doubt that its worth it to go for such a big stuctural change.
SameerI dont know if a MiG-29 could take off from the deck with 2 Bhramoses, maybe due to the design of the Bhramos it could but i am not sure, any ideas?
SameerThis news confirms that the IAF will operate both harriers and Migs on the ship, Hariers can take off quickly during emergencies etc..
SameerScorpene is confirmed but bureaucracy takes time, we should remember that the Gorshkov was also ‘confirmed” a while before the deal was signed, what to do, we are like that onlee.
I don’t think that we will ever find out what happened to Akulas, last year rumour had it that an Indian crew was training in Russia but….
And what the heck happened to the ATV?
SameerThey probably aren’t GA, I see a French engine comming their way for the FC-1 but on a side note, its really hilarious how people can actually ignore what AN INFORMATION minister will say, its not like GA did not provide you with the date and time of broadcast! 🙂
SameerNavy wants Scorpene but a few cabinet members have been convinced “by hook or by crook” that the HDW is a better deal.
🙂
SameerWill the squadron be retired or will it get SU-30MKIs as replacement from the HAL shop?
SameerBut assuming they also have Harriers in the Gorshkov, which may be likely due to the upgrade, won’t that cause quite the maintainance hazzard due to two aircraf types being maintained in a small space., plus 2x the equipment etc…
It would appear that they should at least in theory get the MiGs and Harriers to carry Israeli weapons to minimize on costs and space, maintainance etc…
SameerHonestly guys, some of the most knowledgable members out here dragging a discussion with a kid who is laughing his butt off at you all for playing along with him? Give it a rest.
SameerEnters star49. 🙂
It was nice talking while it lasted.
SameerI always got the impression that Pakistan tries to dow what India does, so India wants to get 126 western fighters, Pakistan does as well, in the case of India, it is making a big mistake in getting 126 western fighters when if the Babus got their act together, they could start expanding the LCA production lines. The saved money could more handily go into the PAF-FA and or MCA programme but Babus are not that bright, pakistan is making a similar mistake but it would hurt Pakistna more than it would hurt India.
SameerSameer, Pakistan successfully completed its last IMF programme and is not taking up anymore IM deals. Therefore there are no official constraints on Pakistani budget allocations and it can spend what it likes (within reason of course).
Aziz
Aziz, no, as I mention, we all know that Pakistan is out of the official IMF black list and in any event, its also not a function of wether Pakistan takes future loans, for all we know Pakistan could take a 100B loan tomorrow and not be put back on the list, what matters is the liquidity situation of the country just like a person u see. Also previous loans that were given to Pakistan a few years ago still have to be repaid, WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS THAT THESE LOANS, still have preconditions which all countries including Pakistan must fulfill, for example when you sign the loan you promise not to increase Govt spending for the duration of the loan term etc and there are preconditions for getting newer loans which all countries must satisfy, pakistan is not a rich country in that it can never have to take loans again, even India has constraints even with 130B in reserves.
The FC-1 will cost 5B USD at least, let us be nice and assume that Pakistan only spends 2B for F-16s and training and maintainance, let us assume that the US is so nice that the P-3s come for free which is ridiculous because the aide wont make up for it and other things as well, plus AEW platforms which will cost another 2B plus intergration costs etc…. You will get into an amount which will be close to 12% of the Pakistani GDP at factor cost. AND YES WE ALL KNOW THAT PURCHASES ARE SPREAD OVER N YEARS GUYS, even if you spread this over 10 years excluding interest payments, again being nice and unrealistic, you get into a very bad situation. We then also assume that the Pakistani army and Navy do not buy anything else either….., even spread out, those costs are high, ever wondered why India is taking so long to buy 126 fighters? Gorshkov?
This whole argument of Pakistan being the agressor is ridiculous, it simply wont be, it will be defending which is why a s-300 type clone system will cause much more damage to the IAF than anything else together with around 300 FC-1s, optimal strategy suggests that the PAF should be strictly defensive, striking at anything like the heavily covered IA etc will invite losses, better use missiles for those. Yes the FC-1 will not be as capable as the block 50 at least in terms of strike but unless the IA has made significant inroads into Pak territory, something which the IA does not plan to do anyway, its just not optimal.
Finally Mauvastin, no discussion is being taken on a tangent, it is PAF speculation and discussion as the thread title suggests? Hence, could you please quit it with the flame trumpet, I view this as another attempt at diverting discussions all the time.
SameerVikas
No matter how you see it, it will cst a lot more than what certain members here think to operate those F-16s with the FC-1 together especially when in theory neither one brings an added punch due to range limitations.
As for the LCA
The IAF wants to be the attacker and wants to maintain a reasonable force level vs PAF and the PLAAF, not something easy to do, hence even the LCA even if it is chummed out at the rate of 16 a year for initial years will not make the numbers, hence the 126ac talk which is in my opinion a waste of money but in India at least, politicians and some lobbies win the day sometimes.
As far as the FC-1 Bison comparison, let us put that to rest, I do remember a few members who were probably Indian who said that but how this became a general Indian attitude, in y opinion, is rather a futile attempt at running away from a decent conversation. In any event the way I remember it, the conversation was more in line with the fact that the BISON currently has a decent radar and the uncertainty of the FC-1 radar, certainly not in aerodynamics aspect.
And again my argument has been from the begining, not only can you count on aide but that aide money will go towards the p-3s and other goodies Uncle wants to donate but it certainly won’t cover the multi multi multi billion dollar deal we are talking about. 5B for FC-1s minimum with infrastructure etc included, AWACS etc, you are looking at a sum that approaches that of the IAF tender, not optimal for a country with a much smaller budget, my question was always why? why when you can do better cheaper? See my previous posts….
I read through pakdef just now and except for a few feel good pieces… don’t you guys ever question deals? It does not make sense to have two planes when one of them was designed to be similar to the other! Plus who will pay for it exactly the PN again?
SameerI never understood the logic of “JF-17 must be a failure or not meeting the requirement that’s why more F-16s” which only emanates from the Indian posters. If that’s the logic, then one can assume that Arjun is a failure that’s why 400 more T-90s are in the planning or LCA failed since IAF is looking to buy 125 jets from other sources?
PAF never said that JF-17 was a high tech fighter for us and will be the front line fighter for years to come. Last ACM Mushaf Ali Mir even said that PAF was/is looking for a 4th generation aircraft and will be inducted in due time. Plus him and others also mentioned that US would not be the only source of advance fighters, it could be Europeans along with some Chinese projects. PAF has been watching J-10 very closely but its little far from maturity, even for the PLAAF.
Reports that suggested that JF-17 will be canned should be put to rest once the inauguration of JF-17 factory at Kamra was commenced last week. From what I have heard PAF has finalized the radar and avionics suite but its been kept hushed up.
Some reports suggested that air-intake has been designed and will be visible with the 4th prototype. Some of you guys also suggested that, it means a different engine. F-16 also uses two different companies for engines, i.e., P&W and GE, but no redesign was ever done for the air-intake.
I believe by the end of this month we should know the numbers and type of F-16s and we should witness the 4th prototype in flight pretty soon as well.
Certainly I was not a member who mentioned that the JF-17 is a failure because the PAF is buying F-16, my point was that why would the PAF buy more F-16s if it can get a chaper one engined alternative, while one could argue that the F-16 is superior, well I guess we dont really know what the JF-17 has anyway for a decent comparison, for the price and RELIABILITY one would think that the PAF would choose the Thunder in general and forgo the F-16 issue. In terms of Pakistan and the IMF, yes Pakistan is not in the black list anymore, however long term loans which were made to that Pakistan would in effect not declare bankrupsy a few years ago must still be honoured, Pakistan is actually off the list because it has been adhering to those conditions.
As for the Ft-2000 issue, there has not been a lot of talk compared to please let us have more F-16s Uncle kind of talk which is really sad. What I am trying to say is what will 40 F-16s do that say 60 JF-17s wont do. We are not talking about a one engined and then a two engined fighter of a typical airforce here. And between me and you, dont u think that the two main priorities of the PAF is to get long range SAM coverage and BVR, the second they will get it soon, the first remains “talk”. In my opinion, the PAF would be better served if they had around 300 FC-1s and S-300 Chinese clones, you dont see many airforces buing more than one type of one engind planes these days. Wasn’t the FC-1 supposed to be a close competitor to the F-16 anyway?
Sure you can argue that the PAF needs planes on a priority basis but not the F-16, at least if you are concearned for your defence position vis a vis a reginal rival, go for a more assured supplier.
In sum airforces which face the reality of small budgets, the whole PAK budget stands at 4B!, should concentrate more on one type of fighter and air defence systems, not two ONE ENGINED FIGHTERS with similar range and some would argue same rough capabilities. Dont you think that the PAF would be better served with for once a better radar than a dummed down J-10 radar?
As for the AEW issue, its stupid to think that the only logic for an AEW platform is simply because India is getting it, India has a bigger budget, Pakistan does not, the other issue is that India intends to be the agressor in the air war and Pakistan is in theory supposed to be the defender, no way she will win as an attacker anyway, hence it would be better served to spend the money on ground based radars with S-300 type clones, this competing with India logic is stupid.
Sign In
