crobatoArgh unit markings removed off the pics. Can’t find out if there is a new JH-7A reg or not.
crobatoThanks a lot !!! … so, the only one missing is “1007” !
… esp. as they seem to show some other parts in yellow primer compared to 1003 !
Quite possibly new prototypes for new J-10 versions.
Regarding the first picture with JZM i’m not sure if this is realy the first 01 in unpainted form as this particular aircraft has the antenna in the canopy which indicated a later machine or a refit !!??
Quite possibly. Given JZM’s relative youth in the picture, however I do feel it is quite an earlier plane, if not the earliest. If you go the WS-10A thread and see the pic of JZM toying with the TVC nozzle, which was taken in 2002 and shown in the Zhuhai air show of that year, he seemed more aged than the JZM in this picture.
For the other “01” I also tend to accept this as the 8maybe) first production machine; we also know a yellow “02” also with RWR which could be the so well known “02” shown with the intake-pylon.
Thanks, Deino
There is also a yellow primered 02 red where the picture shows the plane connected with two hoses being used to cool what is inside the plane. It has a RWR and likely to be the same 02 blue later in the FTTC.
crobatoMore shots, one from CNS photo and the other from tops81bbs.
crobatoThese pics show you at least five or four of the 100X prototypes in a row. These are old pics. 1003 has some yellow primer on its paint job. Given the way at least four of the planes having PL-11s, they should be at least planes after 1003. I believe 1007 is among them.
Also enclosing a pic of 1008.
The other two pics are there to show you that the colors for 100X have been changed. Very likely they’re doing new testing for forthcoming J-10 variants. Thus Pinko’s new pic should be one of the 100X that has a new paint job.
The pic with Jiang Zhemin is most likely to be 01 with JZM congratulating the test pilot. It is likely from the way the plane appears colored, it is still in bare yellow.
The other bare yellow 01 is not the prototype, rather, with its RWR on the side, like the first of a serial production batch. This is an early block and I believe this to be 01 of the planes that went to the FTTC, just not painted yet when this pic was taken.
crobatoMy mistake. I apologize. No wonder I wasn’t able to verify it at first. I widened my search from F110 AVEN to something else. It’s not the F110 AVEN nozzle fitted on the F-16 VISTA. It is actually the GE YF120 with AVEN, alternative for the F-35.
crobatoThat could be the F110-GE-100 AVEN.
Can we verify the origin of the picture? The nozzles look identical to the Chinese AVEN poster, the rear of the engine looks similar, and the joystick part also looks similar to the one with JZM’s pic. Plus the resolution of the picture shows it is a TV capture.
Only pic of the F-16 VISTA AVEN nozzles I can find.
crobatoJ-10 model in some expo.
crobatoThe engine with the AVEN nozzle again. Note the joystick used for demonstration purposes in the foreground.
Found it in the SDF. This picture is a cool find not only because of the clear pic of the nozzle but also of the engine. Note the gearbox is on the bottom, suggesting that this is meant for an aircraft with such (J-10, FC-1). The size of the engine however, precludes FC-1, so it has to be J-10. Likely this means CAC is bypassing the stage of getting standard non TVC WS-10A for the J-10 and going directly for one with the TVC.
crobatoThe highest scoring pilots in history came from a totalitarian society—Nazi Germany. The highest scoring pilots from the Allies came from the Soviet Union.
I would honestly ask the question – Will a fighter pilot from such a society (conditioned from birth to be no more than a zombie) be able to outhink and outfight his counterpart from a free society who enjoys the advantages mentioned above.
Not at all. When you enter the military, you are stripped and disassembled completely, then reassembled and rebuilt into a lean mean fighting machine. Regardless of ideology, you are reconditioned to follow orders, orders and nothing but orders. A military isn’t a democracy, and yes, you’re still a drone. In a way, you are brought into a level field.
However, wealthier societies is able to afford more resources into training pilots. Does not matter if the society is free or not, it all comes down to the buckaroos.
crobatoThe highest scoring pilots in history came from a totalitarian society—Nazi Germany. The highest scoring pilots from the Allies came from the Soviet Union.
I would honestly ask the question – Will a fighter pilot from such a society (conditioned from birth to be no more than a zombie) be able to outhink and outfight his counterpart from a free society who enjoys the advantages mentioned above.
Not at all. When you enter the military, you are stripped and disassembled completely, then reassembled and rebuilt into a lean mean fighting machine. Regardless of ideology, you are reconditioned to follow orders, orders and nothing but orders. A military isn’t a democracy, and yes, you’re still a drone. In a way, you are brought into a level field.
However, wealthier societies is able to afford more resources into training pilots. Does not matter if the society is free or not, it all comes down to the buckaroos.
crobatoMore pictures here.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200603/17/eng20060317_251365.html
crobatoAlso notice the signboard have pics of J-8IIs on it. Besides, the pic is old and we have seen that before as publicity when the Kunlun II first came out. Note: China only made Kunlun public when it was actually the Kunlun-II not the -I that came out.
crobatoDo they accept unpainted airframes?
Perhaps they are in operational field trials?
About the FC-1’s radar? What’s it called and how do you know that it is derived from the J-10’s radar?
The pics of yellow J-10s are old. Since 2003, we have seen pictures of J-10s with actual unit numbers, with two digit numbers painted under the canopy and the rudder, much like the J-11s, and later with five digit unit numbers painted in the tail root, numbers that denote which PLAAF division and regiment they belong to and their bort number.
You will know J-10s or any other PLAAF plane if they are on operational field trials. They would be located in the Flight Test and Training Center near Beijing. A regiment of J-10s have been there since 2003. Let me emphasize that this is not a flight test center—that role is in the CFTE or China Flight Test Establishment in Xian. Not only is this center a trials center, but it is also for training and tactics. Planes here are heavily involved in wargaming, including playing Blue Flag Aggressor. They are also engaged in the air defense of the Beijing area.
In addition to that, the deployment of J-10s in the 44th Division in Yunnan in spring of 2004 confirms the first ever operational deployment of J-10 in a regular PLAAF regiment and division.
As for the FC-1’s radar, it is called KLJ-10 and the radar on the J-10 is called KLJ-3. They are both from the same manufacturer at http://www.nriet.com.cn.
crobatoThe J-10 in theory, *should* be much farther along, but I don’t see any concrete proof of IOC or FOC. Then again, being a much more advanced concept,
means that the pace of development need not be equally fast.
In the meantime, let me address this to Harry too.
This is ridiculous. The stationing of J-10s in operational regiments of the PLAAF, the alllotment of official PLAAF colors and unit numbers, and that’s not IOC for you? Here’s a clue, prototypes in the PLAAF get 3 or 4 digit numbers. When they aer operational, they have something else, they get a two digit number with a five digit code in their tail, which is what happened. The new system now has an orange five digit code in the tail, which is also spotted on J-10s.
Furthermore, the FC-1’s specs didn’t cement until much much later (in 2001) at least, while the J-10 has its specs cemented long before that. The lateness of the FC-1 is political, not technical.
There are also profound effects the J-10’s success has brought, with its fingerprints all over the PLAAF and the aviation industry. Designs have become more technically aggressive. One example is the radar, which the FC-1 is now using a Chinese system rather than Russian. The radar on the FC-1 is based on the J-10’s.
crobatoBut, last I heard, this administrator from Xian A/C which came out a
few days ago to deliver a message about the FC-1 stated that the country had stopped
dealing with Su or something because Su was supposedly unreliable.
You must be referring to Chengdu AC. In a way, it makes sense since China has is also going to the engine makers directly to procure engine spares rather than go through Sukhoi, who is probably topping a margin on top of everything. But didn’t Sukhoi just open an office in Beijing?
Take note of what China _didn’t_ order to make their J-11s. Considering this is March 2006 already and the OLS-31E order was in October. China didn’t order radars, they didn’t order instrumentation, and they didn’t order FBW systems. An IRST is comparably minor to an entire radar and fire control system, and a large seperate order of radars and FCS should have caught the media eye.
Interesting note too, that the OLS-31E is the IRST system for the Su-30s and Su-35s, not the Su-27 which uses the OLS-27. Using the OLS-31E is definitely an upgrade. I only wonder if OLS-31E is what was being supplied in all the previous kits instead of OLS-27. This makes a big difference in the way the J-11 can detect targets passively with its IRST, or whether it can use LGBs with that instrument, as the OLS-27 cannot be used as a laser target designator but the OLS-31E can.
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