Typical right wingo tactic. Compare any nation you disagree with to a WWII Axis power. Its like an overplayed record.

Russia today isn’t a country of angels but comparing it to Hitler or Tojo, is just overreaching it to my book. Anytime you got a country to disagree with, whether its China or Iran, Hitler comes up.

The situation that is growing is much more akin to another World War. Learn your history buddy, its World War I. Just because World War II happened does not mean you forget all the other wars to that point.

WWI is when countries with considerable military might and industrial resources, not angels and not devils either—just plain human with all the freaking limitations of being one—formed power blocs and rivalries contending with each and their individual imperialistic intentions. All it took was one assassination of one politician traveling in a small European country to blow things apart. For one stupid issue, entire generations of people in several countries would be wiped out.

Everyone seems to be pretty certain that DDGs will indeed be pursued and instead of spreading my ususal cynicism, I’m infact blutly resting on these claims as I’m eager to see what the next DDG from china will be like.

I once asked interesting question, packed with my usual cynicism however at that time about the chinese ability to design gas turbine powered DDGs with satisfactory performance. By that I ment the small and cauntious quantativical ammount of the 052 series. First two then back to old steamers and then two again and back to old steam-powered ships again.
I was, like ususally mainly claimed to be just ranting with the tag that “I just hate china”, but in the mist some slight reasonable arguments did rose. Many belived that the reason why only two seccond batch 052s (052b/C) were build was that the production facilities were shifted to another shipyard. I my inturperation was that chinese were not satisfied with the performance of the CODAG propulsion build around the Ukrainian Gas turbines. IMO it’s too small for the ships of that size. So to me it seemed as there still weren’t no proper domestical large size marine gas turbines availble and thus the production of these ships were halted.

Now since then (this being about year ago or so) there have been optimistic reports about chinese procediings in gas turbine field so thus these new DDGs are really a bench mark: Will they be fitted with domestic or imported (Urkainian) gas turbines? Will they still be CODAG or peraps COGAG/GOG?
What if the DDGs are like someone said, “051Ds” eg. steam powered? Or perhaps all diesel powered (not so unlikely as it may first sound)

Like I said I’m eagerly waiting to see what will come up with this. At this time I promise to be far more optimistic than usual;):cool:

The tidbit rumor I got was four 052C/D starting next year, unless that hull in Huangpu right now is a 052C, which so far looks more like a 052C than a 054A.

I suspect the poster was thinking that ships built by Dalian would have to be 051X since they’re geared up for it. I would think rather it would be Dalian that would be building two of the 052C/D ships, while the new Jiangnan shipyard will build the other two. That aerial photo of the new shipyard from an airliner already shows hulls and other activity in the military section of the yard.

If the new destroyers will all be CODAD, the designation may turn to 054X with a new letter.

The rumor tidbit I got is a little different from Xinhui’s, although the number of destroyers are the same. No 2 051D, but four 052D, obviously coming out from the new JN shipyards. I’m not sure if the 051 line will be pursued further, and Dalian is pretty booked in orders all the way to the next decade.

My tidbit also says two 054A to be started this year, and there is already some activity in the shipyards. However, the image I got from within Huangpu shows a design that has a facet that follows the lines of the forecastle. The 054A does not have this, but the 052B/C and the 071 has this. The original 054 has this facet, but I doubt they are building this again, unless its really “054B” combining the forecastle design of the 054 with the specifications of the 054A.

The tidbit I get is that China has just finished its first building boom on modern ships, and is about to engage on a second one. New diesel and nuclear submarines are included. However, little is said about the carrier, and so I’m still 50/50 on the carrier issue.

On my estimate of submarines,

Songs—16 built, but probably only 15 are in service. This includes the first sub, 320, which is still around but I kind of doubt its in operational service. Numbers are 313 to 329. Four are operational in the NSF, four in the SSF, 7 to 8 in the ESF. (It can be three in the SSF + one Yuan for a complete flotilla and 8 in the ESF.)

Yuans — One 039A in the SSF, and at least three 039B, which continues to be built. I believe there will be four in the initial batch of 039B.

Kilos — 12 Kilos, at least 8 are operational all eight being the 636EM. The original four Kilos were sent in for refit all done in China, it seems two are done already and two are in the process. May already have been finished. Four are in operation with the SSF, another four with the ESF. Dunno where the refitted ones will go, but I assume the NSF.

Xia — Now out of its refit. I expect a list of improvements based on previous patterns and model that was shown in public. This includes new tile coating, 7 bladed skewed propeller, flank sonars. I don’t expect it to be JL-2 capable however, it should act more like an SSN now or a training sub.

Hans — 403 is the last to be out of the major refit that makes them 091G. 405 was the first followed by 404. Its not clear what the fate of 401 and 402 is. No confirmation as to their retirement, and no confirmation if they are to be upgraded as well.

Shangs — I believe there should be five of them at least. Three are visible, along with two improved Hans and the refitted Xia in the Jianggezhuang NB in Google Earth, one is visible in GE at the Xiaopingdao NB, and unretouched pictures also showed at least one Shang in Sanya, Linying NB. The number of Shangs should be > than the number of Jins as the Shangs have to either play escort or decoy.

Jins — Good bet there is three to four of them. Huludao factory has pics of at least two being fitted, both from GE and from the ground, and from GE, an unidentified sub whose tail is seen and matches the dimensions of the 093 or 094. I tend to think three, one per naval base, in Linying, Xiaopingdao and Jianggezhuang. I tend to think that Linying will get more 094s and other boomers in the future.

022 — Some credible estimates ranging from 60 to as much as 80. Remember, this ship is being built from smaller shipyards as well, and from Dalian to Guangzhou. A true mass production program involving all the shipyards, which is different from the other ships that are produced from one shipyard only (051 series from Dalian). The numbers for its predecessor though, went up well over a hundred.

I think Scooter wants to see a worldwide condemnation of Russia’s actions. He’s complaining that he’s not seeing it. That’s obviously a reality clash—the actual world is not what he perceives, believes, or thought it to be.

To be honest, the entire world, including that of many US allies, are quite mum about it. Many don’t give a f-n hoot. Where the heck is this Georgia? Is that really a country, I thought it’s some US state. Where the heck is South Ossetia? Should I even care? And what’s the name of that Georgian president or thug in resident, like in sashi in milli vanilli or what?

And what does India think and do about this crisis have anything to do with its future? Are you somewhat threatening them? Back to the “Are you with us or against us” talk?

Really. The average Indian working to feed his family might care more about issues like

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319807,00.html

NEW DELHI — No dollars, just rupees please.

In a sign of how the once mighty U.S. dollar has fallen, India’s tourism minister said Thursday that U.S. dollars will no longer be accepted at the country’s heritage tourist sites, like the famed Taj Mahal.

Are you sure that’s a dispenser? It seems to have a radome in front, a forward intake on the bottom and a rear outlet for exhaust in the back. It reminds me of the German Taurus, as in stealthy cruise missile. It does not seem to have any wings though, unless the wings are retractable.

The world doesn’t revolve around articles…

honestly 😉

Well then what would you use to prove this assertion?

There is a Hollywood outfit that owns MiG-21s, -23s, maybe some Kfirs and some Saab Drakens. Rents out the planes for movies such as these.