Crobato,
A question here. What if a fighter knows for a fact it is the only one dealing with bunch of hostiles and lets say for the kicks can even see a couple on its tail in the mirror, wouldn’t it be a useful capability to shoot the missile with a 360 degree angle and let it lock on to *anything* in the rear(with the excepton of its own rear :p ) ?

No. You have a good chance of hitting your wingman first. If you are familiar a bit with two plane element tactics, you would know there is a good chance your wingman is going to be within the rear sphere of your plane. Besides, missiles will not launch without authorization from your IFF. In other words, to launch a missile blind is not permitted by the plane’s systems in the first place, which has many checks.

The Python V and Derby do use Data link

The Derby does, being a radar guided missile. But IR misisles do not use datalinks. Even with LOAL, they have to be cued and preprogrammed to the direction of the target before the missile is launched.

yeah yeah Crobato more excuses of you, if they are Russiasn sources blame it on the sources if they are western sources blame it on the sources yeah, yeah.

More bull from you. Russia and China are opposed to tough economic sanctions but it does not mean they are not opposed to military sanctions which they have all agreed upon already. What they are opposed is taking it further without negotiation.

The Python V uses data link to achieve 360 deg engagement envelope and its head seeker has a +110deg or -110 deg off bore sight cabaility, compared to the PL-9 it is twice the off bore capability.
The Python IV even has +90deg or -90deg of bored capability

You really full of bull. It says it uses Link 16, but the problem of Link 16 is that it is far too big and complicated to be physically installed in any missile. The missile itself does not have Link 16 but it uses the Link 16 through the plane before it it is launched to cue it to the target’s direction. Once it is launched, it is completely autonomous.

If you have to use a datalink, that means you have to rely on other planes. It means some other plane has to use its radar to IFF the target. It also means the link can be jammed as well.

No matter what you cannot escape the fact that you have to put your target into your radar’s point of view, then IFF it. In effect, your effective boresight is no bigger than your own radar’s field of view, which is around 60 degrees.

Yeah crobato yeah yeah the israelies do not use lock on technologies, the missile is designed to lock on and kill the target, besides the Israeli aircraft have electronic systems that allows them to tell apart friend and foe fighters, do you know what is a IFF? this allows them to know who is out there.

Israel usually also fits Israeli equipment to the F-16s so basicly they are not the same to the F-16s of Egypt or Turkey.

The Targeting system is in charge of locking on the Python V or Python IV either with the helmet mounted sight or radar, so pretty much an Israeli F-16 pilot will distinguish very well a J-10 from an Israeli F-16 and will lock on the Python V or IV into the J-10.

read about the Sufa

The F-16I is based on an advanced F-16 Block 52 aircraft. The Israeli version has integrated several new systems, developed and produced in Israel, required by the IAF, to maintain and enhance its operational capability. Despite the inclusion of many additional systems, the empty weight of the aircraft was maintained at the level of current Israeli Block 40 (Barak) F-16s. The “diet” included the use of lightweight materials, as well as the use of advanced avionics that offer considerable saving in weight and space.

The Sufa version of the F-16 Block 52 has a distinctive dorsal avionics compartment that accommodates all of the systems of the single-seat model as well as some special mission equipment and additional chaff/flare dispensers. The Israeli model is powered by the Pratt & Whitney F110-PW-229 Increased Performance Engine (IPE) engine develops over 29,000 lbs of thrust but weighs only 3,740 lbs. It incorporates modern turbine materials, cooling management techniques, compressor aerodynamics and electronic controls – many of them derived from F-119 and F-135 engines used in the new F-22 Raptor and JSF. The Advanced Block 52 aircraft use the Normal Shock Inlet (also known as the small mouth inlet).

Cockpit:
The Israeli F-16I cockpit features a helmet-mounted cueing system, color multifunction displays and recording equipment, cockpit lighting and external strip lighting compatible with night vision goggles, and large-capacity data transfer sets. Cockpit displays are driven by the Integrated color display processor (ICDP) developed by Elbit Systems, which drives the six multifunction color liquid crystal displays with 484×484 pixel resolution, built by Astronautics CA. HUDs are delivered by BAE Systems (initial 18-25) and El-OP (77-84). For the first time, the company embedded a digital map system and digital terrain flight algorithms into the ICDP computer. Such integration has saved considerable weight, wiring and logistical and technical support, previously required for separate systems. The Inertial Terrain Aided (RITA) system, developed by RAFAEL, uses proprietary algorithms based on accurate terrain reference navigation that improve low-level flight safety, and enable terrain following flight in all weather conditions, day or night and improve flight safety by avoiding ground collision. The aircraft is also equipped with a LANTIRN navigation pod, which enables automatic terrain following flight, utilizing a combination of forward looking imager and TF radar. This system enables the both crew members to fly safely at low altitude, as they were flying on “autopilot”, and concentrate on the employment of mission system and weapons. The fully missionized rear cockpit is used for navigation and Weapon Systems Operation (WSO).

Each cockpit has three displays and Head Up Display (HUD). Color coding is designed to match specific information, in different operational modes, to emphasize the information most important at every phase of the mission. All cockpit lighting, including the color displays, are designed to work with night vision systems. The tandem cockpit utilizes two fully functional positions for the pilot and weapon systems operator and navigator, both are equipped with the DASH-IV helmet mounted display and sight, developed by VCI Inc, a Rockwell-Collins / Elbit Systems Joint Venture which is also developing the new JHMCS helmets for the USAF and US Navy. The helmet display also provides critical flight and target information to the pilot — similar to a head-up display, but in any direction the pilot looks. DASH IV is a fourth generation of the DASH system, of which 500 are already in service. The new system offers several advantages compared to previous models, such the addition of a video camera that can record the pilot’s view to the mission debriefing system, more accurate line-of-sight tracking, etc. The system offers improved tracking accuracy and a miniature helmet mounted video camera that records the pilot’s line of sight view.

Core Avionics Systems
Another improvement over previous F-16 versions was introduced in the core avionics, which utilizes the General Avionics Computer (GAC) delivered by EFW, a division of Elbit Systems. This computer benefits from technology advances including increased processing speeds and memory capacity, by the using off-the-shelf technology, which improves supportability. The aircraft is equipped with a high capacity, ultra-fast network based on a fiber-channel backbone, which links all avionics modules, external stores and sensors into a unified, high capacity multi-channel network. Utilizing a high capacity (1 gigabyte) switch, the FiberChannel runs data streams over five channels with standards based protocols such as 1553 and 1790.

The navigation equipment is based on a 7 channel GPS and ring-laser Inertial Navigation System (INS), an integration of systems produced by Honeywell, Raytheon and General Dynamics. The TACAN is provided by Rockwell, which also provides the ARC-217 HF radio. BAE Systems is providing the ILS system and an advanced IFF transponder/interrogator. which improves the operation of the aircraft beyond visual range, and enable safe employment of long range A/A missiles. The communications equipment is based on an integrated voice/data system, that incorporates RAFAEL’s Green Radio, a localized and improved version of the Rockwell Collins ARC-210 VHF/UHF radio, equipped with a data modem, and an advanced data-link system, produced by IAI/MLM. These classified systems are believed to be more advanced to Link 16, offer integrated, secured and jam-resistant communications was designed to provide instantaneous high quality, high capacity communication between surface and air elements.

The aircraft is also equipped with an advanced data recorder, Advanced Data Transfer Equipment / Digital Video Recording (ADTE/DVR) developed and produced by Smiths Aerospace. The system uses a 15 gigabyte memory cartridge to store the entire flight records. The system records and time-stamps three video and databus channels, including video (HUD, helmet view, sensor view etc), audio (radio, intercom), avionics and sensor data (radar, digital map and flight data systems.) 3 digital video channels. A special mission debriefing system (SIMNET), designed by RADA is used to extract the data and present it for post mission debriefing and analysis.

source http://www.defense-update.com/products/f/f-16I-details.htm

And after all that shameless hyping of marketing material of yours, regardless whether you use an HMS or not, everything still boils down to doing IFF, and that means bearing down your radar on the target since it is the radar that will still do the IFF interrogation. Which means you cannot just fire your missile to the back and expect to hit a hostile, not your wingman.

It just seems to me that you try to cover up your technical ignorance by displaying and posting large amounts of marketing info without really trying to understand and discriminate what really is in it.

actually, looking at the image of the IIR seeker posted by Flogger, the F-16 can be clearly distinguished and so would the J-10..

Really I kind of doubt that, especially against a two seater J-10S, since the F-16’s image is that of the two seater F-16C with the spineback. The J-10S also has a spineback. And these kinds of images are taken in ideal conditions, without consideration in the real world of atmospheric refraction, diffraction and attenuation. And do tell me what kind of image do you get if the target is like 20km away. And what if the targets are coming head on to you?

Regardless, its not a missile’s job to do IFF. If a missile is specifically programmed not to engage an F-16 for example, you will get into a major problem with an F-16 vs. F-16 fight, like Israeli F-16s vs. Arab F-16s, and the Arabs have quite a number of F-16s on their own. There are also aircraft there that can be either friend or foe depending on their actual allegiance, like Mirage 2000s. Program your missile not to engage Typhoons for example, and what if the Arabs went and bought Typhoons, and you find yourself facing the type. Then there is the nightmare scenarios when a friendly plane goes rogue, carrying a bomb, even a nuke, that can be potentially be used against your cities. You need that final option to destroy a rogue plane.

it is not over rate it is only a way you want to claim the J-10 is not inferior in weaponry, the Python V and Python IV have better discrimination than earlier missiles, the Python IV is claimed that within 5km no target will scape that is the claimed no scape zone.

LOL. They discriminate between plane vs. decoy. Not plane vs. plane. Missiles do not do friend or foe idenification.

All what you say about identification also applies to the PL-9 or any other missile, but the Python V or Python IV have off bore sights of 90 deg and in the Python V after launch engagement capability of 360 deg.

And its all useless unless you can IFF your target first. That means putting your target into the plane’s radar bore first.

The figure Sinodefence took was originally from a brochure that was selling the PL-9C as a ***SAM***. Read the ad. it says 8km for ground to air. You obviously lack the intelligence to discern and discriminate information.

And you actually think having 60, 90, or 180 or 360 degrees is that important? Overrated.

As a matter of fact, in Bekaa valley, even with a 30 deg off boresight, Israeli pilots were firing their Python 3s at dead center because they are afraid that the missile can lock into anything else including a friendly.

Thus, its all pretty useless until you can clearly identify the target as foe or friendly before you fire. That still means you have to put your target in your radar’s field of view for proper IFF, either cooperatively or non cooperatively. Having an all around aspect also greatly increases the chances you may target your own wingman in the process, if you want to fire blind without determining who EXACTLY the missile is locking onto.

Thus in practice, your’s missile’s effective off boresight during combat isn’t any better than your radar’s field of view.

Crobato you like it or not that is what is written in those webpages of course your excuses are typical rants to give authority to a unreasonable proof, say that to Sinodefense, by the way Crobato and only need my daughters and mother`s love to be happy besides i have many friends who love me, i do not need the false concept of human acceptance, meanwhile i know i do good and the ones close to me love me, man i do not need more;)

BS. You are just utterly defeated in that argument. Webpages are not considered pure evidence because every idiot and monkey can write them.

I gave you the official range figure that is what counts. Repeat after me: 22km.