It seems the F-22 did quite well against 9X + JHMCS, especially if you guys only got a Fox 2 on the merge itself. From what you say would it be fair to assume that it has the ability to deny F-15 the chance to get the 9X within boresight. Were you aware of any of the F-22s “kills”?

LMR

F-15D. Taken over the ranges of Elmendorf.

Was a cool sortie – we snapped some shots, did two high aspect BFM setups against him (we had JHMCS and AIM-9X), then took some more shots on the way home :).

How did you fare? Are there places the F-22 goes operationally that the F-15 can’t manage altitude wise? Could you see if the F-22 enjoys a significant high alt performance advantage?

LMR

F-15D. Taken over the ranges of Elmendorf.

Was a cool sortie – we snapped some shots, did two high aspect BFM setups against him (we had JHMCS and AIM-9X), then took some more shots on the way home :).

How did you fare? Are there places the F-22 goes operationally that the F-15 can’t manage altitude wise? Could you see if the F-22 enjoys a significant high alt performance advantage?

Edit: Wow it’s just dawned on me how amazing that actually is – I blame a few beers and the time.

When are the other wallpapers going to become available?

But they could jettison into the sea if need be.

Yes and no. It depends on the situation. US test pilots were perfectly entitled to state basic claims like *this bird accelerates like hell* or *this bird is lazy like a school bus at high-g maneuvers*. Even you or me could probably make such claims with reasonable accuracy.

But the same pilots are not entitled to say that *the engine is crap because it did not work like expected when I operated it at M2.0* simply because they got no clue how R-29 should be operated at such speeds and what procedures need to be followed.

In my eyes, the opinion of USAF jocks on MiG-23 is roughly as professional as an opinion of boys having stolen a Ferrari from father’s garage and taken few rides.

LMRaptor, you seem to have completely misunderstood me this time. At no point I was referring to those pilots as liars painting things worse than they are. Finally, they have spoken highly of the Fishbed, that pretty much negates such intentions. I personally would love to read the book for some funny anecdotes but I’d hesitate to draw any conclusions from what’s written there.

Well Flex I guess we are going to have to disagree here! These pilots are not lone rangers out for a joy ride – they would have been backed up by some pretty bright aero engineers and mechanics and while trying to reverse engineer a newer 4+ gen aircraft is nigh on impossible in any reasonable timescale – using their expertise to access the operational realities of whatever variants of Mig-21/23 they had would definitely have been possible.

Thats the key there – the operational realities! The US pilots may not have always understood the technicalities of the idiosyncratic performance of each type in any given scenario. Especially in the given timeframe – but they definitely had the capability to assess the solution used by the Soviet aerospace engineers and had the capacity to conclude on the resultant workload on the pilot. Eg: to say that if the R-29 wasn’t as forgiving or carefree in X environment or if it had to be operated in such a matter that it meant the pilot had to be doing this this and this – while a western pilot, perhaps not getting the same top end supersonic performance, didn’t have the same strenuous workload etc. These operational realities were more vital to the operators – as opposed to the exact reasons why! As such I think some of the conclusions might well be worth listening to.

I also think this analogy is dreadful:

In my eyes, the opinion of USAF jocks on MiG-23 is roughly as professional as an opinion of boys having stolen a Ferrari from father’s garage and taken few rides.

A professional point of view only comes from pilots that were instructed and trained to fly the aircraft. The jocks who had the guts to enter the cockpit and fly something foreign without having clue of how it works are surely impressive and daring guys, but to call them ‘professionals’ is a bit strechted, don’t you think?. 😎

No Flex, I think the word professional is completely apt for what I was refering to. These pilots may not have been formally trained in the operation of Soviet Migs but are undoubtedly professionals. They wouldn’t have managed to conduct such an operation if this wasn’t the case.

You wouldn’t call a test pilot a coward and I certainly wouldn’t you call a test pilot “unprofessional”? A test pilot on a new airframe hasn’t been instructed or trained to fly the new jet but that doesn’t mean he’s any less a professional than any other pilot – in my book at least – infact he has been considered skillful enough to write the book on it himself. This is probably the kind of piloting quality that was vital for the Red Eagles.

In addition to this, these chaps had the goal of evalutating the performance of the aircraft – so they weren’t bound by traditional rivalries or the need to “big up” their own jets. The result of them getting things wrong or telling lies to make the Migs appear cr@pper to appease yankie fanboys could be the loss US lives – so yes these were definitely professionals. You may be inclined to believe that they have now decided to lie or forget things in their old age.

If I want opinions on the flight charactertics of an aircraft I don’t talk to the glorified mechanics/technicians – I talk to the pilot or the engineer who wrote the laws. If I want to know how well the maintenance procedures designed by the engineer have worked in the real world – I talk to the maintenance crew. So yes I am happy we have access to new sources – and not fanboys with opinions.