Spoilsport – ruining my fun – just for that I insist the F-35 Lighting II in UK service be called the Lightning FA7 (as last BAC Lightning was F6) – not sure if when you re-use the name you continue the numbering or restart it (I suspect latter) – but that’s hardly the point as the fun is in speculation!
If it was called Sea Hornet then would it not be Sea Hornet FA22 as the last Sea Hornet in FAA service was the de Havilland Sea Hornet NF21 – just imagine how confusing it would be when the FAA turns up at say Red Flag with their squadron of Sea Hornet FA22’s which strangely look almost identical to the USN F/A-18 E/F’s
Thanks – like the sound of a Hornet FA1 :).
(thud – hand slapping head) – yeah my bad, it would be Sea Hornet FRS18 not the other way round otherwise it would be GR4 Tornado and not Tornado GR4 as it is currently!
Interesting – but I suppose if the F/A-18 E/F was in RN service it would have a different name like FRS18 Sea Hornet?!?
On more serious but definitely more flawed tack (as I expose my lack of understanding for a) requirements for RCS and b) improving aerodynamics)
Silent Harrier – A Harrier II with increased use of composites, quadraplex fly by wire, AESA radar, blended intakes, improved Pegasus engine, refined aerodynamics so that it can top out M1 with A2A load out of 4 AMRAAM and two ASRAAM, and finally improved nozzle system and other refinements to improve IR signature.
Designed as a cheaper alternative to the F-35B mostly brought by RN and hailed a success by Boeing 🙂 despite low sales as Boeing never get the large order needed to get the flyaway cost down to be significantly lower than the F-35B. When it is retired in 2040 by the RN hailed as a classic which punched above it weight during numerous low level conflicts
JackJack 3.0
Built by Dassault and loves the Rafale rather than the F-35 :diablo:
While I will not disagree with your sentiments, I think what LM seemed worried about was the Partner Countries (to the F-35 Programme) not purchasing aircraft rather than the sub-contractors like RR inflating the price -now I am calmed down a bit it could be that LM is looking at A400M and seeing the partner countries for the A400M holding off their purchases which has left Airbus spending their own money and want to avoid a repeat of the situation.
However the UK does not need to order until next year and based on what I have read the initial order was always going to be around 50 aircraft so it might be that LM real battle is going to be repeat orders as I imagine a lot of Partner Countries planned staged purchases and they will only likely commit to the initial purchase at this point.
As you said earlier Swerve it is a matter of interpretation I took his comment that “If, at some point in time, somebody says we are not going to buy any airplanes, that puts us in a pretty difficult situation, so there is a trust factor, sort of a partnership factor, that goes along with being part of the programme” combined with the fact that he was noting the partner countries are “still soft on production schedules” as a veiled threat but I was in a pretty p*ssy mood at the time so I likely took the worse interpretation of the comments.
what is kiss?
K.I.S.S means Keep it simple stupid – it is an engineering idea that the more complex something is the more points of failure you introduce.
I think it is unlikely you will see lots of F-35B’s falling out of the skies but I would expect them to require more frequent maintenance than the A or C, and that over it lifetime a F-35B may need a lot of work on the lift fan compared to other systems.
Personally I think the Treasury’s agenda is to buy British which is often more expensive (and delivered 18 months late) and Liam Fox is pushing that the only thing that should be guaranteed British is those areas which we need to maintain our technology (like ship building) and everything else should be brought off the shelf against a generic spec rather tailored for the UK at the lowest cost – i.e. no more British made Chinnock’s.
If David Laws little embarrassment had not come out he would be in the Treasury right now and he would have blocked any attempt to buy Chinnocks made in the US and would have pushed for the much more expensive option of buying them under license from AugustaWestland
Then why did LM make the statement to Jane’s Defence Weekly that industrial participation for partner countries was to be set by them ordering soon the full number of aircraft originally planned?
The only new bit is who wrote it – Pofessor Trevor Taylor an emeritus professor at Cranfield University at the Defence Academy and professorial fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, London
More doom and gloom – a prediction of the outcome of the SDSR:
http://www.defencemanagement.com/feature_story.asp?id=14682
Force structure changes
The SDSR findings that will capture the headlines will be those dealing with cuts in force structures rather than capabilities per se. Work (and argument) continues but, even if the costs of Vanguard replacement somehow disappear from the needs of the next decade, this author would expect:
• No more than one carrier to survive the review;
• The intention to buy 138 Joint Strike Fighters to be cut to less than 50;
• Significant cuts in the number of active RAF combat aircraft
• Significant cuts in tank regiments and the Royal Artillery
• An intention to withdraw UK troops from GermanyOther credible possibilities include retiring Tornado early, absorbing the RAF Regiment and Royal Marines into the Army and ending the Navy’s capability for amphibious warfare. Each service is lobbying vigorously for its roles and assets with the Army being keenest to support its headcount (a cut of more than 10,000 would be viewed as highly damaging) whereas the Navy and RAF are focussed on their equipment. There might be reluctance to abandon Tornado at this stage until the remaining uncertainties of delivery date, cost and performance of the JSFs have reduced, but the RAF remains keen on the US multi-role aircraft.
That would be interesting, especially for lawyers. I think this could backfire very, very badly for LM. Who would want to deal with a bunch of jokers like LM if they could avoid it – product is tens of billions over budget, years late, going to cost much more than anticipated for customers needing delivery when anticipated (LRIP prices instead of full scale production prices because of the delays) and LM now threatens to renage on contracts, too!!!!
From the UK prospective – likely because LM want it that way – the UK will not get full access to the source code so the MoD cannot use BAE to integrate weapons but have to go via the “Software Centre” in the States. Them there is on-going saga of the alternative engine which UK wants but its funding limps from year to year and looks like it will be cancelled – and the alternative engine was part of how the UK was going to additional industrial participation due to RR role in the alternative engine. The stealth nature of the aircraft means that it needs to be taken to a maintenance centre in Italy rather have major maintenance in the UK, and lots of people are sceptical of how reliable the F-35B will be compared to the A and C due to the complexities of the lift fan.
Taking all those things together with LM threat/sales tactic makes the F-35B difficult sale in these financially constrained times – the F-35B’s main benefit was that the entire CVF was based on a STOL carrier with light/dark blue jointery and exploiting the lower though life costs of STOL and it flexibility and if you take all the above factors along with the fact that even a reduced purchase may not be enough to protect the UK’s industrial participation and it suddenly makes the F/A-18 rumours seem more real – after all I am sure that Boeing would give the MoD their first born kid if they made a multi-year buy of F/A-18 so I see no difficulties in getting some sort of industrial participation and access to the source code to allow BAE to do weapon integration.