What if the RN had a small UAV unit?

For a relatively small amount of money a useful effect could be acheived that would actually be more useful that just a ship.

The Baldrick theory of politics….”Mr B, I have a cunning plan….” 😀

So to take your point further it would be like saying right what is the best way to provide a low cost escort to provide ASuW, Anti-shipping and land attack in low and medium threat environments and deciding that rather than a frigate you could get the same mission profile if you built a aviation vessel to commercial standards with a large rear deck area, and mission modules, and basic radar equipment designed to support UAV’s and Lynx’s in anti-ship/submarine role, and use mission modules where necessary to carry SCALP-N or Tomahawk (assuming that they can be fitted into a mission module and integrated into the ships radar) for land attack.

Some days it feels the MoD is run by a combination of Yosemite Sam when Bugs Bunny is getting the best of him, Wylie Coyote, Baldrick and Lord Percy 😀

Just another politician stating the bleedin obvious. Why don’t they just shut up until they do actually have a policy with hard figures to announce?

Firstly thanks for the clarification on C3, so what you do if you where in charge of the MoD FSC programme and given a blank sheet to design cost effective mix of range of platforms (including helicopters and UAV’s) around all the roles the RN need to deliver with their current mix of frigates and mine-sweepers?

Secondly, I assume that Liam Fox and co are building the ground work for support with-in the military and with the greater public for whatever changes they have already decided they need to make: –

For example the story about PoW that has circulated in both left and right wing papers about fitting PoW with a catapult and sharing with France might be correct (even though it sounds just plain crazy and badly thought out) – but we might have only had part of the story leaked and the MoD’s cunning (like Wylie Coyote) plan might be: QE launched as STOL carrier, PoW launched with EMALS with agreement for joint French operation, MoD decides that buying F-35B and C is too expensive, and buys F-35C, when they retire Harrier they then have to refit QE with EMALS, some point in the next decade France commissions a carrier which from Carrier Alliance based on QE for joint operation with UK

Interesting story (in the Guardian which has a liberal outlook) where a diplomat for UAE is in favour of the US attacking Iran to shut down their nuclear programme.

The story suggests that other Gulf Countries would also not create to much of a fuss if the US attacked Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/07/uae-envoy-iran-nuclear-sites?CMP=AFCYAH

With limited funding and the need to do more with less it might be time to talk about C3 (and C1 and 2) more in terms of a desired effect than just outright hardware. Just some thoughts.

I think I am being a bit dense do you mean that instead of a shopping list (it must have x, y, z) we should instead be saying what roles do we want each ship to fulfil and then design the minimum platform to deliver that role (kinda like what they are doing here http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/fdr-maritime-future-part-3-another-view-on-c3/), if so what do you think each of the C1, C2 and C3 roles should be?

Edit – I should mention I think the design proposed in Think Defence seems a bit of an over-kill but who knows hey!

Also, what about the OPV’s that the Netherlands’s ordered back in 2007, are they a good example of what the RN needs or are they instead too large and expensive to make a good C3 platform?

Thanks Swerve for the update on the pay off dates for the Types 22 and 23’s.

On C3 class corvette – I thought the speculation was the design would be in the region of 3,000 tonnes and around 100 meters long? Is this more rampant speculation (have I been reading the wrong types of web-sites 🙂 ), or does a 3,000 tonne corvette sound about right?

The pic of the Khareef attached, which Navy Matters suggests would be the basis of the C3 seems quite rounded vessel, I think I can see vertical launch tubes which I assume is for air defence missiles, a medium sized gun in the A position, though I cannot spot any CIWS.

I quite like the idea of the C3 have enhanced aviation capabilities – so if you were building a corvette which enhanced aviation capabilities would you be in effect taking the rear end of the C1 design (the heli deck, helicopter hangar and UAV hangar) adding in a section for the mission module, then you would have up front a couple of CIWS and a 76 mm cannon?

Alternatively, they could call the air craft carriers “Aviation Destroyers” and claim that they are designed to complement the T-45. 😀 Maybe they should tag on a Sampson radar and stick in some Aster 30 in vertical launch tubes and the public will fail to notice the aircraft embarked 😀

Lord Jim the key is a cool acroynm and a name which suggest to newspapers it is really to help the Army in Afghanistan – how about Ocean Going Army Support Cruiser (OGASC)

The politico’s have to listen to the voters and as a result (due to voter general ignorance, fickleness and stupidity), the media that helps guide voter opinion. Therefore it would be a very brave minister that stood up and said “yeah this Afghan lark, only a couple more years left in it, lets spend the money on more frigates instead.”

….Wooton Basset has become an undignified mess every time a hearse drives through and now we have this ridiculous “armed forces day”, its all so cheap and tacky, what ever happened to British reserve? But the upshot is the Army has control of the public minds at the moment and therefore the ear of the minister.

Well you have sadly burst my bubble, I was picking up enough bits a pieces from Liam Fox’s speeches to believe he was going to say to the Army look Afghanistan will be over soon, have some extra vehicles and new sniper rifles and the like but once you are out, do not expect all of the FRES purchase you want as the UK needs new Frigates and Ocean Going Patrol Vessels more than you need 4,000 odd new vehicles, and oh by the way the RAF will get the F-35 it actual needs for offensive op’s.

Plus he has slapped down Sir Richard Dannatt a couple of times, and if I read a story properly he does not want Sir Richard Dannatt getting any where near defence once Sir Dannatt gets his peerage.

The RN possibly will operate an Escort Group of a T-45 DDG, 2x T-23/FSC GP Frigates, Astute SSN and a Support Ship.

Maybe they will, no reason they should, it would be a rubbish grouping for a humanitarian op off of West Africa for instance or for a primarily CAS mission like Afghan where the threat to the carrier is minimal. There is no way the RN can afford to have three “escorts” and an SSN permantently tied up with a carrier.

Presumable the only time we are likely to be seeing a Escort Group of T-45 plus 2 frigates and a SSN would be if the excrement has hit the fan in the South Atlantic or in the Gulf and we are seriously looking to put a big dent in someone’s surface fleet or their air defences.

Out of interest would it be a worthwhile use of the QE go out with a deck full of Merlin’s (once they convert the ex-army ones for the commando role) and a detachment of marines and use the QE for anti-piracy duty, and if so would it be worth assigning any sort of escort?