David LeggThis thread is a tad dated now but I wanted to comment on a note I made within it. Although it is correct that a total of five, not four, former FAB Catalinas did come out of Brazil to the USA, and all five remain extant at various locations there, it is NOT correct that the address of the owner of N4934H is the same as the address for the other four. This was my error from a mis-reading of data years ago and which I have perpetuated since without realising it! Although Tallichet may have been loosely connected with its acquisition in Brazil, he was not on the delivery flight and the registered owner is both different to, and at a different address to, his four Project Catalina aircraft
David LeggThe Tofino wreck is RCAF Canso A 11007. The PBY-5A that was scuttled in the Infernillo Reservoir whilst drug running was N5583V and this occurred on 19/3/1974. To the best of my knowledge, it is still there. Mention of Lake Mead reminds me that there is a sunken PBY wreck there – this is a civilian US-regd Catalina that crashed many years ago and remains unidentified although it may be N67134. A diver recently lost his life whilst searching the site.
The wreck at Daru could well be PBY-5A VH-WWC which sank there on 26/4/1962 although I have the cause as ‘hitting an object on water’. I would be interested to know more about the scam theory – is it an urban myth?
There are numerous high ground and under-water PBY wrecks – some from crashes and, in the latter case, some from deliberate scuttling.
David LeggThe aformentioned undercarraige collapse (starboard side main) was not at Exeter but at North Weald when it was delivered there for the first time, the departure point having been Exeter. Its Canadian owners back in 1985 were Avalon Aviation and when they closed down, this Catalina, then C-FHNH, was the only one of the fleet not in Ontario. It was in Norway on a water bombing contract. It then went to Castle Donington and then to Exeter where, whilst in open storage, it had an argument with a Dak which was blown into it in strong winds. It then went to North Weald where it had its u/c collapse and later to Biggin Hill before going back to N Weald. All of these ‘residencies’ were quite extended. As related above, it eventually departed NW for Israel but only got as far as Northern France before engine problems necessitated a precautionary landing at Beauvais where it remained after what will probably turn out to be its final flight. Its destination (by road) after leaving Beauvais a couple of weeks ago was Antwerp from where I believe it is to be shipped to Israel and the IDFAF Museum at Hatzerim. Although the Edwards Brothers and Chuck Ellsworth did much of the prep work at North Weald to get it flying again and delivered to israel, they were not able to compete the work because of the disagreement that occurred between them and the owner of the Cat and so Chuck never actually flew it in the UK although he had flown it many years before when it was in Canada.
David LeggRe the 5th PBY, I have looked out the various US magazine articles that covered the flights of these PBYs from Brazil to the USA. Air Classics 8/1985 says that FAB 6525/N4934H was originally intended to be pole-mounted at Belem air base but when the authorities realised that they already had FAB 6527 in the Rio museum, they agreed to sell 6525 via Maurice Skinazi who had brokered the deal for the original four aircraft. Tallichet wasn’t on the ferry flight of this fifth aircraft but the registererd owner, as said before, shares the same address as the other four aircraft linked with Tallichet. So, there does seem to be an element of murkiness here regarding Tallichet’s involvement.
Ironically, Belem did get it’s own PBY gateguard in the end even though 6525 went to the USA. This was PBY-6A 6552 and which,to the best of my knowledge, is still there.
David LeggA couple of corrections and updates are needed to the list a few messages back….
Bu#46456 N4852T should read N4582T and this is no longer at Cherry Point but is with Project Catalina at Floyd Benett Field, NY under static restoration. It was FAB 6509
Bu#46457 N4852U should read N4582U. It was ex-FAB 6510
Bu#46582 N4583A is ex-FAB 6520
Bu#46595 N4583B is ex-FAB 6551
In fact, a fifth ex-FAB PBY (actually a former Canso A) did come to the USA later and was registered to an owner at the same address as the other four and all were connected with David Tallichet. This was N4934H ex-FAB 6525 and RCAF 9838 and it is now to be found at the Historic Aviation Memorial Museum at Tyler, Tx.
If Stangman would like to contact me off group at [email]davidlegg@pby5.fsnet.co.uk[/email] , I can help him with articles about the recovery flights as originally requested.
David LeggThe ex-Plane Sailing Catalina VP-BPS is long gone (to Weston, Dublin) but the complete PBY-5A N423RS ex-Greenpeace is still there, now unflown for some considerable time – in fact since it arrived. The latter has no connection with Plane Sailing.
David LeggCommenting on the reference to the controls in the original Catalina flight engineer’s position in the pylon, the throttles were ONLY in the cockpit and NOT in the pylon. The flight engineer did have various engine controls including fire extinguishers, revs and boost indicators,fuel balance and main tank cocks, fuelpumps, fuel tanks contents indicators and fuel flowmeters. He also had controls for mixture, oil Ts & Ps and contents, cowl gill controls as well as float operating mechanisms. The pilots and engineer did indeed communicate via a signalling box that, in the cockpit, was mounted on the elevator control yoke and, in the pylon, on the forward bulkhead in front of the engineer. No airworthy Catalinas still have this arrangement with all engine, fuel, oil and float management being carried out from the flightdeck.
David LeggOK – summary of UK Catalina population…
G-PBYA (Originally a Canso A) painted as 44-33915 and based at Duxford. Owned by Catalina Aircraft Ltd and operated by Plane Sailing Air Displays Ltd
N423RS PBY-5A current at Lee on Solent but not flown since arrival there – painted as JV928/Y
L-866/8466M PBY-6A ex-RDAF at RAF Museum Cosford
VP-BPS now de-registered and located in dismantled condition at Weston, Dublin, ex-Lee on Solent, Lasham, Hamble and Duxford
N285RA once a North Weald resident (and Biggin Hill, Exeter and Castle Donington) but now dismantled at Beauvais, France and awaiting surface shipment to Israel for IDFAF Museum
N9521C PBY-5A, once a North Weald resident but now at Virgina Beach, USA
David LeggThe Catalina is VP-KKJ and the photo is at Blackbushe.
David LeggThanks Chris – it’s been a while since I visited that site even though I have suppplied some of the images there and so had not seen the ones of the F-ZBAR bow section. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
David LeggIn the 1990s, this museum had the forward section of a Catalina (actually a former RCAF Canso A amphibian) which had previously lain dereict at Marseille following an accident in July 1964 whilst serving with the Protection Civile. The aircraft was c/n CV-449 and F-ZBAR ex-CF-NJP and RCAF 11100. I see that this item is not included in the internet page mentioned in the second message of this thread. Can any reader confirm its continued existence and provide a photo of the relic whilst at the museum?
David LeggOn the Catalinas, the airworthty one in the film, N6108, was not destroyed but, ironically, was later lost in the Pacific when it ditched en route Hawaii – Tahiti on delivery to NZ (as N5404J). It lost an engine but the prop failed to feather and the drag meant that it could not maitian height on the good one and had to ditch, damageing the hull and causing it to sink. All crew rescued without harm.
David LeggI flew in G-AGTM earlier that day. Persuaded my wife to come with me, explaining that it was the safest aircraft on the airfield! Ironically, I later used to fly with Pete Treadaway (in Plane Sailing’s PBY) and he died in a Dragon Rapide crash.
David LeggHaving read that press report, I’m minded to think that the description is almost certainly far more dramatic than the truth. More likely is that the very experienced crew in command noted an oil leak, either through routine monitoring of t&ps or from visial inspection, shut the engine down as a precaution and proceeded to the destination airport, Carlisle in this case. Hardly a forced landing and given that Carlisle was the intended destination anyway and that the flight was a transit and not a display I’m not even sure that precautionary is appropriate as they were going to land there anyway. As usual, the media desperate for a story. A more appropriate description would be that “the Catalina arrived on the power of one engine”. Nothing emotive, everything under control.
David LeggThe title of this thread immediately caught my eye and it prompted me to look up the (or at least a) definition of what constitutes a ‘forced landing’. My trusty 1945 volumn of The Aeronautical Dictionary published by Pitman in the USA describes it as “Any landing that is not voluntary. It may be due to structural failure, bad weather, lack of fuel etc..” The Catalina involved yesterday was G-PBYA out of Duxford and was landing at Carlisle as its intended destination and where it will be based this weekend as part of the Whitehaven International Maritime Festival. The Cat is quite capable of flying on one engine provided the other’s prop is feathered and so I wonder of the term ‘forced’ in this instance is somewhat dramatic?
Sign In
