David LeggWhere is Mr Legg to give us chapter and verse when you need him!
Well belatedly David, here I am! This is very sad news indeed. Like some of the other posters here, I was involved as crew and in fact flew in it during its very first UK air show appearance at Biggin Hill in May 1985 with Keith Sissons and John Watts. I went on to have many great trips in her.
Although I thought it unlikely it would ever fly again after its accident on Southamption Water, it did seem reasonable to expect that it would be preserved in some way after the initial plans by Super Catalina Restoration at Hamble/Lasham/Lee-on-the-Solent to put it back in the air foundered. All seemed set when it was acquired by the prospective museum project at Weston but clearly it did not work out. I had heard a few weeks ago that it was for disposal as either a restoration project or to be parted out but I do not know how widely it was advertised. Unless someone can get the cockpit it seems it is now the end of the line.
As an aside, in response to Alan’s comment that “there are still around 23 still flying”, I’m afraid that number is very wide of the mark. There may just be that many potentially airworthy examples but the actual number that have flown in, say, the last six months can be easily counted on one hand.
Not that anyone has suggested otherwise but it may be worth pointing out that Plane Sailing Air Displays Ltd have had nothing to do with the demise of this Catalina, its active involvement ending with the accident back in 1998. So it is sad for us at PSAD to see this wonderful old Catalina of ours succumb to the scrapman.
David LeggAs part of this record and preserving history, there are current 7 Catalina in Australia – 1 flying, 1 been restored back to flight status (CFM)along with another 1 maybe pending a decision in Qld. There are 4 others at various museums on display covering from Sydney, country NSW, Melbourne and Perth.
Daniel – according to my notes there are more than seven…
In addition, there is a nose-section of an unidentified PBY-5A(M) on display at Albion Park and possibly still two marine craft/houseboat conversions extant.
David LeggIf this is a copy of an original nose art carried on an OA-10, then I’m interested to know how John Dibbs can claim copyright on it? The copyright remains with the originator, unless of course John has bought it himself?
Sorry, I’m not meaning to be funny here… I just don’t see how how someone can redraw something that them claim copyright… Isn’t that exactly what copyright is designed to prevent?
VX927 has raised an interesting question so I am posting a response that I hope will explain the position.
“Any artwork or photograph that is generated is copyright to the originator, unless they choose to sell or release those rights. Our Miss Pick Up artwork is based on the wartime 44-33915’s Miss Pick Up artwork, which in turn was based on Milton Caniff’s original Miss Lace (but they are not identical). John Dibbs spent hundreds of hours painstakingly recreating a digital version of Miss Pick Up from scratch. Therefore his version is copyrighted in part because it’s his original artwork and also in order to protect Plane Sailing and use of our identity, and protect her use as deemed best for our operation.
However, as Miss Pick Up both old and new, certainly owes her creation to Miss Lace (a character from the forces comic strip Male Call), we contacted the Milton Caniff Estate before progressing with the project to check they were happy with our version. They were delighted for us to continue and happy that we can carry on keeping Milton’s name alive through our nose art.
Milton’s artwork was used on numerous airframes including the B-17 mentioned in an earlier post; his characters made great nose art material! And Milton himself dedicated thousands of drawings to the Armed Forces. He was unable to join the services himself, so his artwork became his valuable contribution to the war effort, boosting morale for men far from home. Google him if you want to learn more, he was a fascinating guy.
Our long term plan is for John Dibbs to paint the artwork on to the fuselage as would have been done in the war. For operational reasons, we have started off with a temporary vinyl version before getting out the paint brushes.”
I hope that helps. All I would add is that I think it is fantastic that after some 67 years, photos of the original Miss Pick Up Catalina surfaced from no less than three entirely separate sources within a few weeks of each other!
David LeggNice MF135 with the Cat!
It’s a 185.
David LeggFlyPast February 2012 gives chapter and verse on the art work carried by the Catalina.
It was in fact a two-parter with Part Two of Rachel Morris’s article in the March 2012 edition. There are no plans to put a bow turret in place or to change the blisters.
David LeggNow you have me worried about my obvious oncoming dementia! I only ever recall visiting Ford on one occasion, but don’t remember seeing an Aero Commander of any type there. There was a cut up Gemini fuselage there though…:confused:
In fact, Ford was something of a minor centre for Aero Commanders in the late-60s! In addition to the odd visitor such as G-ASJU, Commander 680s N6300 and N1186Z (later G-AWXK and G-AWXL respec.) were long term residents from late-1967 onwards with N6300 being converted to Turbomeca Astazou power. In addition, Commander 200D N2965T (later G-AWYH) resided for some time and I recall two Aero Commander 100s with US registrations being assembled there and flying off with German regs. As a kid, I was pretty much resident there myself in those days.
The cut up Gemini fuselage was almost certainly G-AJOJ (red and white) although small bits of the Miles Aries G-AKFX were there too. ‘JOJ was used in the restoratioin of George Miles’ G-AKKB and was eventually burned.
David LeggG-ARJJ and G-ASJU were taken at Biggin Hill. G-ASJU famously lost a main wheel on take off one day and had to be landed wheels up. Although repaired I don’t think it flew again and ended its days on the fire dump.
The colour photo of G-ASJU (middle, top row) is definitely not at Biggin Hill but Ford in Sussex, despite the caption. The hangar is one of the old FAA ones and at the time of the photo was used by Miles Aviation (R&D) Ltd. I recorded G-ASJU there in early September 1970 after arrival from Biggin Hill with the aformentioned belly damage. It was complete, not dismantled, so may actually have flown in with the damage as opposed to coming in by road. It left Ford on November 5th the same year by air for Booker with Chipmunk G-APSB acting as crew ferry. As an aside, the grey caravan in the background of the photo was being used at the time as an office by Neville Duke who was engaged in some test flying for Miles.
David LeggThe Catalina’s still doing circuits and landings as i write this. Watching it from my window!
I’d have waved had I known 🙂
David Leggso when is the catilina nent to have here nose art placed back on again?
The artwork will be put in place very soon ready for the 2012 display season. The artwork used for the photoshoot last year was temporary but enabled the air-to-airs to be taken to support the two-part FlyPast article by Rachel Morris published earlier this year.
David LeggThe identity of this Catalina is mis-quoted on the website referred to. Often stated as a Canadian Vickers-built OA-10A c/n CV-560, USAAF 44-34049 (including, it has to be said, in my book on Peacetime Catalinas), research by the late-Ragnar Ragnarsson showed that it was in fact a Consolidated San Diego-built PBY-5A c/n 560 ex-BuAer02963. The FAA register quoted the c/n correctly.
David LeggThe identity of this Catalina is mis-quoted on the website referred to. Often stated as a Canadian Vickers-built OA-10A c/n CV-560, USAAF 44-34049 (including, it has to be said, in my book on Peacetime Catalinas), research by the late-Ragnar Ragnarsson showed that it was in fact a Consolidated San Diego-built PBY-5A c/n 560 ex-BuAer02963. The FAA register quoted the c/n correctly.
David LeggCertainly not my topic but I looked up the Fouga CM-100 in Air-Britain’s book French Post-War Transport Aircraft published in 1980 and it states that an un-identified CM-100 nose section was still kept in a hangar at Chavenay on the outskirts of Paris as late as August, 1976. Perhaps this is the same relic and it moved from Guyancourt to Chavenay at some point after the lead photo was taken.
David LeggFuture generations of PBY/aviation enthusiasts will be indebted to you for your excellent research. I just bought your book.
Thanks Farmgate – now rather out of date and the internet age has meant that much more info and some corrections have come to light, a classic example being the Catalina ‘245’ in those LIFE photos which seems to have come as a surprise to other researchers I know as well as myself! Perhaps an update will come out one day!
David LeggFirstly, thanks again ‘Farmgate’ and ‘Longshot’ for providing the links to these excellent photos. On the colour scheme, I consulted Martin Willing, ex-Cathay Pacific, who has done work on researching Far East Catalinas as part of his wider research into the history of Cathay. Although neither of us can be categoric, the thinking is that the scheme was light grey or silver tail over a marine grey or similar colour. Martin says that red is a ‘lucky colour’ in Asia and is quite probably the colour used on the Amphibian Airways nose logo.
What really intrigued me was the ‘245’ identity of the Catalina in most of the photos. Amphibian Airways had four ex-USAAF OA-10A Catalinas (XY-ABV, W, X and Y), all registered in Burma. Actually, XY-ABV’s previous identities have not been established but it is a reasonable bet that it too was an ex-USAAF OA-10A. Ironically, it is XY-ABV in the background of one of the photos of ‘245’ thus discounting any link between the two! My theory is that ‘245’ is actually PI-C245 and that Roy Farrell of Amhibian’ had it registered in the Philippines, either before or after it was registered in Burma. Air-Britain’s register covering the area published many years ago has a gap where PI-C245 would be!
To date, that’s it but any more thoughts/photos would be welcome!
David LeggNo, not at all.
My quick Google revealed an Amphibian Airways in NZ about that time. I had assumed the OP’s spelling was correct.
I’ll fix it if it is appropriate
Moggy
Well the Burmese Amphibian Airways pre-dates the NZ company of the same name which operated its first service in 1951.
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