With this planned buy, IAF will have 60 M2Ks. The old ones can be upgraded to Dash 5 levels. I feel it is a clear signl that the IAF wants M2K-5 for the MRCA role as well. I’d prefer Rafale but the one big advantage of the M2K is that they can be integrated pronto. 130 odd MRCA M2K-5s plus the Qatari deal and upgraded existing Vajras will give IAF close to 200 M2K-5s.

Add to that around 200 Su-30 MKIs, we have the Hi and the Medium covered for the next 2 decades.

For the low end, we have the LCA and 70 odd MiG-29s.

Now who’s posting political stuff? 😉 Yasser BTW, ask your Mamoo when IAEA inspectors land at Chaklala and what they took with them.

However if by ‘stand up to’ you mean that India would think far more carefully before launching any aggression (such as the ‘cold start’ doctrine) – then you are also correct.

The key point is that Pakistans new systems will clearly increase its defensive capability – while its desire to avoid all out conflict will maintain its strength. At the same time India will also be more encouraged towards reproachment and any danger of its superiority fueling the start of a conflict will be thwarted. This is the balance Rice spoke about – and I think its a balance that is in everyones interest.

You are very correct that these new systems for Pak will cause any Indian leader to think twice befor Cold Start type stuff but there is a flip side to it.

There is more historical evidence that thanks to myth making, 1 muslim = 10 Hindu type reasoning, some Pak leader might get too light headed and launch a Kargil or Gibralter type “tactical genius” operation. If you read Pak Def you see even before the F-16 announcement some geniuses called for a preemptive strike on India to “liberate Kashmir” because a weapon in the hands of a Pakistani is 100 times better than a weapon with a Hindu etc, (BTW SyedAKM, I have a job and a really enjoyable life 🙂 )

That is in no one’s interest. But I’d bet we will see in a few years. My feeling is that of the saying about a dog’s tail.

BTW, India is also not going to let slip the big advantage it built up, so easily. If IAF buys 126 Rafale or Gripen or Super Hornets, we are back to square one.

I agree about the Rafales. India can now shop with the French for AESA and the full armament kit for the Rafale because of the US-given leverage and the Super Hornet on offer.

The above report does not say that Russia is okay with reexporting of RD-93 to Pakistan by China and the fact that “China can ask Russia to transfer the production line of the engine” indicates that there is still a gray area. BTW, the key thing is the phrase – “If Pakistan requests.”

Also –

Because of this, there is a force emerging within the Pakistani Air Force that proposes to re-evaluate JF17.
<->
This would probably mean the total number of JF17 that Pakistan will order is going to be much smaller than 150, and this is what the Chinese side is most concerned about.

Like I said in the closed thread, with the F-16 release, PAF officers who were gung-ho on J-10 or FC-1 are likely to be sidelined. That could be part of the reason why the US is offering “unlimited” F-16s.

I’d look for some “unexpected” issues with the FC-1 soon. 😉

BM, This is not PakDef where you can feel good by banning those who disagree. There are responsible moderators and you are not one of them. 😉

Arthur – I’ve deleted my posts as per your message above and will cease and desist on the political stuff as you have asked.

Now to the point it’ll be interesting to see if PAF gets AMRAAMs because of past US decisions vis-a-vis Taiwan and the peculiar deal they had. The US could have also sold AMRAAMs to PAF already but chose not to do so.

IAF’s budget is $9 billion for 126 jets and is certainly in the ballpark to being able to afford Super hornets.

If I had any say, I’d definitely take a look at these offers seriously. A custom made “Block 70” F-16 and twin-engined, long-ranged Super Hornets sound awfully enticing. These are times for soul-searching. The MiG-29 was a political buy and it has eventually turned out for the good. Super Hornets with accompanying tech transfer and production in India is not something to turn down out of spite. US is also offering EW, C4I, BMD and many other force multiplying systems which must also be looked at carefully. Some of these systems have no peer anywhere in the world. I’m told India has asked to look at AEGIS or AEGIS-lite as well as some previously unavailable systems.

Some Indians are bound to feel this is all a drama and a sop to mollify India. But it is up to India to call the bluff then isn’t it? If you are a serious airforce and someone is offering you F/A-18 E and F, will you reject it outright?

I’m disappointed at the frenzied reaction in India for the Pakistani deal as though skies were falling. Very very childish and betrays a lack of confidence. I’m glad the IAF and government are handling it in a mature way with a polite expression of displeasure and moving on. Indian media should take the hint.

Pakistan is a sovereign country with a good military. Pakistan, thanks to US aid and its economic reforms, also has the money to buy fighters for its airforce from many places. Did they expect the US to force Pakistan to buy from France or China when they are funding it? Also, will the US let Musharraf lose face after he personally asked for the F-16s so many times. The man has had attempts on his life and his credibility was at stake.

The IAF people I know defintely had planned for a BVR capable PAF since early 1990s so it is silly to expect that PAF will not get advanced weapons in 2005 when India is buying and developing these weapons in a large scale. The US will not let Pakistan collapse and needs Pakistan to be its preeminent Muslim ally. So India cannot build up its defenses by vainly trying to isolate Pakistan.

I say time for IAF to look past old fears of American arms and swing for the fences. Get the Super hornet and ask to be in on JSF. What’s the worst that could happen? They will say no and India can go with Plan A. 🙂

Okay I just contacted the folks at Voice of America and got the program with the quotes on FC-1 from Pakistan’s info minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed. It was Friday at 17:00 GMT.

Translating from Urdu, here’s what he said:

The Question was – Why did you say F-16s are an urgent requirement for PAF when you are jointly developing a good fighter with China that can be delivered next year?

Answer: We are thankful to our engineers and Chinese government that JF-17 will be a great long-term medium technology solution for PAF but it has serious uncertainty about Engines and few other parts. For the Engine, the Chinese have assured us that they can procure a good one from European companies and also that it is guaranteed to be given to PAF versions for the long-term. But we are concerned that it may take time because of EU sanctions on China and when they might be lifted and other international issues. There are also many questions about integrating other components which we want from Western nations so it may take many years to work out the technologies. Therefore F-16s are almost a lifesaver because our original fleet of 40 F-16s is now reduced to 32 and they are really at the end of their life and need upgrades immediately. America has assured us to provide latest technology for the upgrades also, so it will ensure our defense stays at a good level. Anyway why don’t you ask India why it needs American planes when it has Jaguars, Mirages and Migs?