Actually, I’m interested in knowing the specs of the Chinese radar as well.

Also, any details on the avionics?

Arshad,

Have you been on this forum when some of your compatriots talked about high-falutin radar/avionics combo for the FC-1 and how that was going to be this, that and the other?

This is a pointer to those “experts” that many times high expectations comed down to meet the time/money constraints.

One hopes that the FC-1 Pakistan incharge types don’t make pompous claims again, but then again…

The rumours of RAW ? Well. Even if China witholds latest… It is still improving and that is the hurting part. Sofar they build complete lines for fighterjets in the past. I do expect that you fully and logically understand that JF17 production facility is TOT? And even if the J10 TOT is not reality… It is still going to be fully maintained inside Pakistan by Pakistani engineers. Well. We know who talked about paper planes and now it is about J10 being paper Tiger… Same people think that LCA is superior. Where is the objectivity and sources?

PAF Engineers have maintained F-16s for over two decades. Can Pakistan make F-16s today?

ToT does not mean transfer of R&D ability. Read Ayesha Siddiqa’s book.

Finally, I figured you’d bring LCA in somehow. Good show 😉

plawolf,

Couple of points:

1. The EU sanctions on China have been in place since 1991. So why was PAF talking about RC-400 or SAGEM etc. and finally settled for a Chinese radar/avionics combo? Does that make sense to you? We are not talking about internet rumors but FC-1 project in charge and PAF chiefs have said that.

2. I’m not claiming that Chinese radar/avionics are bad. It was PAF which is saying that.

“BS Terminator”…now thats sarcastic isnt it?

anyway, gtg..exams..expect me to be absent for few days..jee I’m gonna miss all BS termination and Nirav’s jokes..np you can pm me.

You could not defend a single argument you made to me and were forced to terminate it.

Ergo, my nick 😉

Do keep off the personal attack going forward will ya?

Read AVM Lattef’s statement man. He said Chinese radar tech is years behind West. He was not referring to AESA either, was he?

– and then he says he’s happy with it..

LoL.In 1998, my classmate wanted to join a startup and make $10 million in a few years. Today he makes $65k a year and is happy with it. 😉

– again!! arggh lol, Again Chinese needed to know what exactly PAF needs!! cant you get that… and we paid for it..not free…what does that means?? We tell em these are the demands..you do the supply..and we pay the price..

So in all these years of FC-1 development, PAF did not tell CAC what it needs? 😀 😮 :rolleyes:

BTW, why don’t you demand AESA and get it the same way? :rolleyes:

The only logical conclusion is you are using selective quoting and missing the whole point. AVM Lateef stated earlier Chinese werent good enough, NOW THEY ARE, –> “However, They promised to improve their technologies, and with our guidance – and more time – they have met our expectations“.

2 years ago, PAF expectations were higher than what China can manage. Today they are both level.

That could mean equally that PAF expectations came down, couldn’t it?

They were being made with the news that was available at that time..see we dont have Tantrik Babas to look into future here in Pakistan.

Well, many of us non-tantrics were here to tell you that an under $20 million fighter and Western radar/avionics package are mutually exclusive, weren’t we?

Can there be any other reason why PAF has chosen a cheaper, years behind radar (as per AVM Lateef) instead of an RC-400/Grifo-S7 for its FC-1s?

There are no sanctions now and no trade issues.

Anyone that feels it necessary to paraphrase an article that was just quoted earlier in the same thread has very little credibility indeed. And yes, I’m referring to you Golden Arrow.

It could also meant that the said person might be engaged in another debate and did not have the time to post what has already been posted. There’s no discrepancy between what I paraphrased and what the AVM said, is there?

Where do you get the time-frame of months? I, for one, find it hard pressed to reach the same conclusions from reading the AFM quote. And I suspect that even you, during a momentary period of intellectual honesty, find it equally hard to reach the same conclusions… otherwise, why bother to “paraphrase” for our benefit?

Look at it logically. 2 years before June 2004 was the starting time frame. Let me even give you 2 years.

I don’t know how competitive the Chinese-made systems on the J-10/FC-17s are when compared to those in the West. All we *do* know that as of 2 years ago, they were not acceptable to the PAF. And we know that today, they are acceptable.

Do you think 2 years is enough for China to get its avionics up to par with West just because PAF guys were “guiding” them? Does the PAF dude imply that the Chinese were struggling before he showed them the light?

Don’t you think that the most logical explanation is that the PAF lowered its specs also and met the Chinese halfway?

Does all of this add up to imply the FC-17, equipped with Chinese avionics, are in your words:

… with Chinese radar and avionics, one can forget about FC-1s handling Western AAMs and AGMs.

The burden of proof should certainly be on your shoulders for such a definitive claim. Let’s hear it.

Look up in the Keymags archives. If you cannot, ask me again.

I for one will wait to see what actually occurs in the field. And for those who poo-poo the developments possible within a 2 year time-frame… let’s not forget that the J-10 and FC-17 were also unacceptable fighter aircraft two years ago.

So would I poppo. But the point here is that this was aimed at a certain group of people who were crowing about the super-duper capabilities of non-existent FC-1 radar and avionics which they were sure will be Western.

Now their claims are gone.