Of course you cannot acheive anything without failing sometimes. India has made great progress in its own designs and I do not seek to mock that. I just posted the news of Agni II Plus test failure and people started going on about painting missiles, I then posted links showing India has had foreign help just like Pakistan in its missile programme.

Foreign assistance and missiles are an open secret and several Pakistani leaders have even admitted this, so I do not see the point you are making.

However, Pakistan has made great strides itself too, just look at RAAD ALCM and Babur Cruise missile.

In fact, acepting foreign help and inducting foreign missiles quickly and secretly has probably contributed to making Pakistan’s missile and nuclear deterrent outstrip India’s.

yawn, so brahmos is based on the yakhont airframe, everyone knows that. tell us something new. :rolleyes:

what matters is that internally it is a much modified missile with hugely improved capabilities. but for people like you who differentiate between vehicles on the number of wheels they have, it is probably beyond comprehension.

No need for the insults. I have proven my point.

You really need to study more about how militaries operate.

Are Malaysians dumb as they require IAF instructors to help on the SU-30?

Are Srilankans dumb as they require PAF help on the C-130?

No, it just makes sense sometimes. I would call it very shrewd.

1) PAF helped develop the Erieye with the Swedes to their specific requirements
2) They operate in Hot and high envoironment
3) Have long and solid military relationship with Pakistan
4) PAF have not shortage of trained manpower and Saudi do
5) PAF is only Erieye SAAB 2000 operator

If Saudi chose PAF help I would call it very intelligent, you call it dumb…..

First test of a brand new missile. Nothing too upsetting. We make our missiles not just paint them 🙂

Your point other then flaming is?

the attitudes prevailing here are certainly interesting and if anything can be learned.. it is that you have strong confidence in the capabilities of your newest F-16s! This may not have happened if it were J-10s being received.
But.. what if the IAF fields F-16INs? :diablo:

No doubt about it. Never said PAF F-16s are unbeatable, am sure in the right hands a MIG-21 could beat a Block 50.

Point is on a purely technological comparison we have poster claiming a upgraded Mirage 2000 beats a Block 50.

Going just by basic facts, that is simply not true.

As suspected, this rapidly turns into a IAF is better then PAF saga. Almost all the time, by the same posters whenever facts may be inconveniant for them.

@ Kramer

It really does not matter how many hours PAF, PLAAF or USAF does.
You claim IAF Mirages do 1,500 hours per decade (with no source), in the same breath you can reliably inform us IAF only has 1.2 pilots per plane. You know this how? 125 hours? Almost below NATO minimum.

I cannot think of any fighter plane entering service in the 80s that will not need at least some strenthing in order to continue being active beyond 2020. Even USAF is retiring F-16s and F-15s younger then 1985due to airframe issues, but in your magic world the rules of physics do not apply to IAF planes.

@ Boom

Can Top Owl cue a AAM? No. Please do not call me kiddo or try and BS me and forum members.

Again, we have a case where Boom, Kramer and Quadbike claim “Mirage 2000 upgrade puts it on par with Block 50 F-16”

When facts prove wrong we get into PAF fighter numbers, flight hours etc.

An upgraded Mirage2000 is not on par with a Block 50. That is simply the point I am refuting.

I think if the Russians were to get their after sales support and spares right India would not be looking westward as it is doing now.

The Same Sniper XR on offer with the Uper Viper for IAF. Btw IAF is going to have 51 Mirage 2000-9s how many Block 50s + MLUs will PAF have ? And then there are the upgraded MIG 29s again atleast as potent as the Block 50s in A2A.

And do you agree that the JHMCS without a HOBS missile is not very effective as in PAF Falcon’s case.

Look, as mentioned. Lets stick to facts. IAF MAY get Litening III, PAF may well get AIM-9X (No too far fetched seeing as they have AIM-120C5).
Numbers of aircraft are irrelevant

But you have skillfully tried to change the main point of the debate.

Finally, IAFs MIG-29s have not been through an upgrade yet. Essentially you are talking about future stuff and comapring it to the present day. Its insane.

The Mirage 2000 upgrade does not make it “on par” with a Block 50 F-16 like some of the Indian poster were implying.

I am simply pointing out that this statement is plain wrong.

:rolleyes: IAF currently have Litenings and Litening IIs and with more aircraft being inducted they are bound to order more and these would of course be the latest Litening IIIs.

Hardly matters as IAF don’t have AIM-9X, but they can cue R73Es and whatever missiles IAF put into the Mirage.

For PAF they have JHMCS but not AIM-9X, essentially negating the advantage of the JHMCS. R73E is superior to all other Sidewinder variants.

Lets not get into what PAF have and what they dont have. So you admit, no Litening III even though you are ASSUMING IAF will get it?

You are essentially comparing a system in operation with PAF Blcok 50 F-16s with a system IAF MAY order.

Can you see the fallacy of that argument?

As mentioned, Sniper is much more advanced then the Lietning. In fact USAF and others have replaced the Lietning with Sniper. No amount of posts from anyone on this topic can possibly change that. It is a simple technological fact.