No talk of RSAF getting 60 Long Bow Apaches to add to the 12 already in service.
Why they need 72 Apaches I have no idea!
As an example comparing Pakistan Air Force’s situation. If you qoute me, at least give me the courtesy of qouting me properly.
Pakistan having 400 fighters is not overkill considering the threats it faces. No one can seriously argue otherwise.
Even if it does include new avionics (and we dont even know that!),more then double the price!?
India may buy 42 more SU-30MKI
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/national/india-may-buy-42-more-sukhois-518
Works out at $100 Million per plane. Thats the price of a JSF!!!!
The Saudis will give Israelis a good run for their money. What gives Israel an edge now are nukes.
I dont doubt that, but Saudi is not a direct and present threat to Israel (in fact they both share a common foe). Granted,this may change in the future, but that is outside the scope of the debate on PAF Airpower numbers, and certainly the scope of this thread….
^Nope. Israel’s got multiple hostile nations with strong militaries to deal with. Pakistan has one.
Actually it seems likely that the greater half will be deployed on the Chinese side, so Pakistan may actually have a numerical advantage.
Wrong. Israel actually dominates every single country that neighbours it by a massive margin. Even the Israelis will be proud to tell you that.
Pakistan has to face an adversary that outnumbers it in both airpower, manpower, tanks and ships. By a good margin, at the same time it has to conduct air operations against Taliban/Al Queda to support the Pakistan Army and keep its eye on a possible aggressive Iranian response to US air strikes against US bases in Pakistan.
Also, despite your thoughts, Pakistan has to plan taking into account ALL Indian military assets are going to be used against it.
Your eagerness to paint a certain type of picture that fits in with your agenda has pushed reasoned logic out of the window.
400 fighters seems over-militarised when you consider the size of Pakistan and the fact that they only need to be used on one front. Unless some of them will be deployed on the Iran border as well?
400 fighters seems over militarised for Israel considering its size.
See the fundemental flaw in your post/flame?
20th FW and Pakistani airmen reunite at Red Flag
8/11/2010 – NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. (AFNS) — In a symbolic and historical event, Pakistan airmen flew six F-16Bs and 100 aircrew, maintenance and support members more than 7,700 miles from Pakistan to participate in their first Red Flag and Green Flag exercises at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. in mid-July.
There, the Pakistani airmen met up with the 77th Fighter Squadron, a past U.S. training partner from the 20th Fighter Wing, at Shaw Air Force Base, S.C.
“The deployment from home base to Nellis (AFB) was an unequivocal experience, considering the distance and the consequential use of aerial refueling,” said Pakistan Air Force Group Captain Javad Saeed, the Pakistan detachment commander.
In 2006, the U.S. Air Force and the PAF came together for an exercise in Southwest Asia, said Capt. Lisa Spilinek, the 9th Air Force and U.S. Air Forces Central media operations officer. Since then, they have participated in normally scheduled exercises in that area, to improve U.S. and Pakistani interoperability and security relationships, and to demonstrate the U.S. resolve to support the security and humanitarian interests of friends and allies in the region.
“Since that exercise, the continued engagement we have had with the PAF shows our commitment to them and how important and strategic our relationship is,” said Col. Don Godier, the 20th FW vice commander and the Exercise Red Flag 10-4 Air Expeditionary Wing commander.
“The spinoff of enhanced mutual respect and appreciation for one another is what has lead to continued engagements and up to Red Flag,” Captain Saeed added.
“The 20th FW sent the 77th (Fighter Squadron) to participate in that 2006 exercise in support of the 9th Air Force engagement strategy focus and helped serve as a foundation for improving the interoperability between the two air forces,” said Colonel Godier, who was also the 77th FS commander at that time. “During Red Flag 10-4, the 77th FS received the opportunity to fly again with the 9th FS from Pakistan, the same squadron they flew with in 2006, continuing the relationship.“
Red Flag 10-4 gave both air forces the opportunity to learn and grow from each other through the opportunity to understand each other better culturally and professionally, Captain Saeed said. Both aspects are crucial for working on common objectives.
“The PAF’s participation in this world-class exercise helps to build international air force cooperation, interoperability and mutual support,” said Navy Vice Adm. Michael LeFever, the U.S. Department of Defense representative to Pakistan. “It is also significant as both a tangible and symbolic demonstration of the deepening U.S.-Pakistan strategic relationship.”
“There is definitely a history between us and the PAF,” said Capt. Max Johnson, a 77th FS F-16 pilot. “A couple of the Pakistani pilots recognized our patch and were asking us about a lot of the pilots from 2006.”
Captain Johnson said he was surprised at the lack of the cultural barrier between them.
“Originally, some of us were expecting a language barrier working with (the Pakistani airmen),” the pilot said. “But, they all knew English very well. We were able to joke around with them and understand each other’s jokes.”
On top of all this, Red Flag gave PAF members the unique opportunity to deploy their assets and personnel halfway around the world, Captain Saeed said. It also helped provide them a contemporary air combat training environment for their less experienced aircrew.
Training together with coalition forces helps with understanding and communication, Colonel Godier said. It helps improve the effect and efficiency as combat air forces.
“Our participation together in this exercise has been not only valuable, but essential in that coalition forces are the key to success,” Colonel Godier said. “It has been a long process of working together.”
I read somewhere they may get a similar configuration to Singapore/South Korea
Not UAE. The roundals on the car are Jordanian.
My bad. Apologies, both roundels look very similar
when you’re not a democratically elected govt. you can afford to not have tenders, trials or proper competitions. Simple back-scratching and bribes to the royal family (since nearly everyone in positions of power have ties with the royals) will suffice and if allegations of corruption are investigated, threats of scrapping the deal to save their face is carried out. Seems that you quite like this method of getting things done. :rolleyes:
Seem to have touched a nerve there.
Not that bribes or corruption exist in another “democratic” country hey? :diablo:
Shall we leave it at that? Or do yor really want to go there?
You may have a point about the sand on engines, but I would have thought the dry desert heat would keep the airframe in good condition (it is was all US aircraft are stored in the desert at Davis-Monthan).
You’re still picking particular arguments, & ignoring others, which by themselves can be enough for the Saudis to decide against any upgrade or life-extension.
What about crew issues? What about weapons? Numbers of types in service? Redundancy?
BTW, the Saudi F-15C/D fleet has been through two wars, & everything I’ve read & heard suggests they fly a lot of hours.
I am not ignoring those issues, the basis of your previous 2 posts was the age/wear and tear. My point being that if the USAF can upgrade its C/Ds so can the RSAF (assuming other factors are equal)
Obviously if they do not have the pilots then they simply dont have the pilots. It is not the case of me ignoring the other arguments, just pointing out your original one (airframe life and age) is flawed if one looks at the US example.
Sorry Swerve
Totally disagree on the utility of Saudi F-15s.
Willing to be these birds have less hours and airframe stress then even the best USAF F-15s.
Consider what USAF F-15s have done in the past 20 years, how and wear they have been employed, and the level of high stress exercises the frequently do, and I am willing to bet a crate of beer they would be in mint condition compared to a USAF bird.
Quad
You always seem to try and turn round my arguments.
If you READ them properly. I never said the deal is not important. Loke pointed out that some firms may depend on it for their survival. This is not true.
Agree or disagree?