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Greenday1

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  • in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2044599
    Greenday1
    Participant

    The last kilo was inducted in 2000. The last Type-209 in 1994. Unless you are an expert in madrassa mathematics that would be less than 6 and 12 years respectively.

    ” madrassa mathematics “

    First of all cut out the quasi-religious insults. I never start on Hindus, I expect the same common courtesy. If not, crawl back to that fascist, intolrent hold you came from.

    and explain to me how a noisey 6 year old Kilo can compete with a brand new MESMA AIP Agotsta 90?

    In endurence, quietness, weapons ability and electronics, the Agosta 90 wins hands down. The only advantge the Indian Navy has in sub terms is in pure numbers, Please dont sit there and say you have anything comparable to a Agosta 90B, you wont have till the Scorpenes come online

    Greenday1
    Participant

    That would be when the last of this MRCA plane is given to IAF.

    Whats your reasoning behind that?

    Greenday1
    Participant

    So, the MRCA probably wont touch down on Indian soil till 2016 at the earliest!?

    in reply to: Hezbollah shoots down Israeli helicopter #2588362
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Certianly in the eyes of many (including those outside the Arab world), Hezboallah fought a land battle with the most powerful army in the Middle East and was not destroyed. Many would regard that as a victory. I would say they have gona a long way to shatter a few myths.

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2044648
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Dude
    Just 4 days agos Pakistan Navy introduced a MESMA AIP Agosta 90b with SUBTICS command system.

    This sub is about a week old.

    Are you genuinely saying India (which has not inducted a new sub for the past 15 years), has a more modern submarine in service?

    Thats all I stated. PN had the most modern sub in the area as of right now. There is nothing fanciful, nothing “anti-indian”, nothing to do with flaming. Its a fact.

    If your unfamiliar with what this sub is capable of I will be happy to point it out.

    in reply to: Questions regarding airforces (no politicising) #2588412
    Greenday1
    Participant

    1) PAF

    JF-17 – To replace A-5, early F-7s (delivered in early 80s) and Mirage 3/5s that did not go through ROSE I, II and IIIupgrade programmes.

    Later versions of JF-17 to replace F-7PG (delivered in mid 90s) and ROSE upgraded mirages. This should happen 2010-2014

    F-16s A/B MLU and C/Ds as well as F-10s to form “cutting edge” of PAF.

    In all tiy can expect a PAF line up to look like

    90-100 – F-16s
    40-60 F F-10s
    150-200 JF-17s

    Add Erieye and Air refulers to this

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2044667
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Can we stick to PN news? Think there is an IN thread, so those who want to pray to that mighty navy can do so over there.

    Anyway….

    KARACHI: Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir presenting the model of submarine ‘Hamza’ to President General Pervez Musharraf during the launching ceremony of Hamza.

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2044937
    Greenday1
    Participant

    This is hyperbole. The IN is also acquiring scorpenes (in greater numbers than the Pakistani Agostas), has Club-S armed upgraded Kilos. If & when the PN does acquire a handful of Marlins, India will choose a better design for itself.

    As regards Pakistans neighbours outspending it in terms of military, in terms of proportion (%) GDP Pak spends more than India, which despite being a much larger nation spends its money more wisely and has a sustainable economic program.

    I a, not saying who is right and who is wrong. Thats your own value jusgement. I just pointed out a simple fact. Pakistan is sandwiched between two neighbours who spend much more (as a gross total) on defence thne Pakistan does. With regards to spending more on social development, I agree, in an ideal world Pakistan would spend all its money on social/education/helath prgrammes. However, as your aware, we dont live in an ideal world.

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2044939
    Greenday1
    Participant

    The aviation component is held up by P-3’s which cannot stand up to Mig-29’s or harriers for that matter. PN has what a dozen helicopters and 3 modern subs?

    Its shaping up to be a good coastal navy, but lets not get carried away.

    I think our navys tactics might involve trying to avoid letting P-3Cs get into dogfights with MIG-29s!

    I assume they may operate withing fighter cover and at our Gwadar, Pasni and Masroor airbases. Also, PAF has just signed a contract for air refuelers according to PAF ACM.

    10 Harpoon equipped P-3Cs woukld be a signficant threat to ANY fleet.

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2045039
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Only now, when funds are less of a problem has the PN directed its attention to the surface and aviation fields. When it was crunch time, during the mid 90s and early 2000, the PN threw most of what it could at the subs, at the expence of the surface fleet.

    Hindsight being 20/20, that was the exact right decision. The PN had very meager resources compared to the PA and PAF and decided to use those resources towards the only credible threat they could mount against the IN: the subs.

    With more funds available, the PN can now bring the capability up fleet wide but the years of neglect to the surface and aviation arms will be felt till the F22s and the Orions are inducted.

    2 P-3Cs are due to be delivered next month. I think we have two in service already and these were updated by LM. Contract says we should have all 10 operational by end of 2007.

    PN always had money for Orions, it was the US sanctions that were the problem there, not the cash.

    In the case of surface fleet, your completley right

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2045046
    Greenday1
    Participant

    The sub capability was acquired at the expense of the surface capability and naval aviation capability. Neither of which are very awe inspiring. But the sub capability of the PN is definitely something not to be dismissed.

    The only caveat is that the surface fleet will be getting stronger with the F22s and the aviation side is getting a lot stronger with the P-3s.

    With the Orions, ex-Greek ships and F-22s, I dont think we have sacrificed any capability.

    I agree, present surface fleet is a bit weak. But in terms of MPAs and Subs, in the Indian ocean, its the most modern fleet out there. Pakistan Navy doctrine is sea denial, not sea control.

    in reply to: Pakistan Navy #2045097
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Yes, but that is paying for a large army, a mediocre air force, a navy composed of speedboats full of machine gun and RPG wielding Revolutionary Guard and three Kilos.

    Oh yes, and lots of money going into missile and nuclear arms technology.

    Unicorn

    I dont want to go into politics or what they spend their money on. My point is both of Pakistans neighbours (one nuke armed and the other on the verge of being nuked armed), both spend more on defence. You mentioned we spend alot. The best thing would be to spend on butter, nit guns. However, as shown, both of Pakistans neighbours outspend it on in terms of the military.

    What Pakistan has done with such a small defence budget, and signficiant amounts of US and Chinese aid is quite remarkable. The most modern sub fleet in the Gulf/Indian Ocean (obviously barring USN),with anotehr 6 of a new design is quite remarkable.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force News & Discussion June- Aug 2006 #2590317
    Greenday1
    Participant

    So, a P-3 or a P-8 can’t even take off without at least one Harpoon attached to it?

    No, but it would be much more effective WITH Harpoon!

    in reply to: Indian Air Force News & Discussion June- Aug 2006 #2590345
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Why would india want harpoons??
    Navy has already made up its mind on brahmos, Klub and Kh-35 to replace sea eagle. I also don’t see India buying P-3c’s anytime unless it could carry brahmos-A and Kh-35.

    IN would of course like the E-2D or hawkeye 2000 if the govt approves.

    Er, becuase you cant operate P-3C/P-8 without Harpoon

    in reply to: Indian Air Force News & Discussion June- Aug 2006 #2590375
    Greenday1
    Participant

    Not really , the companies dont lobby for every customer , their lobbying means that they actually have a chance to win the lobby..for most countries the competition to sell aircrafts isnt so intence as to have the Manufacterers lobby the US govt. to give out their best top of the line products. India has made it quite clear that they want simply the top of the line interms of avionics etc and US manufacterers are going to have to provide it inorder to have any chance of clearing the competition and landing the deal . The bar is simply set higher then usual ( with the UAE being the only exeption where the bar has been set this high) . LMA or boieng hasnt offered the chance of developing a custom varient for that many AF’s ( and a custom varient that is at par or better then most of the varients they themselves have in service) if you look into the history of these jets.

    They dont Lobby normally because they dont HAVE to! Manufacturers dont lobby on behalf of a country becuse they love them, get a warm feeling whenever they think of them! Thye lobby because they HAVE to.

    For obvious reasons they dont need to do this most of the time becuase there are usually no restrictions on major US allies such as Australia, Italy etc

    The momment they get permission to seel to Indian IF that happens, you can be sure other major US allies will be queing up for it and get it as well.

    In terms of India, they may want to sell lots of goodies, but US has not even cleared Harpoons to India yet! Thsi may be why there has been not IN interest for signing a contract for P-3C or P-8 yet.

    Best thing to do is wait and see.

    Personally I dont see India going for F-16/F-18s.
    ACM of IAF said the decision would be made in 3-4 years, with another 4-6 years for delivery. In a worse case scenario that means that it could possibly be 2016 till they get them. With USAF possibly phasing out the F-16 in 2020.

    US Navy’s premier fighter will be F-35. The vast majority of F-16/F-18 users will be looking at replacements. The longer IAF delays a decision, the worse the odds get for an F-16/F-18 purchase. If teh IAF ACM is right, we could all be dbeating this 126 aircraft purhcase for the next 4 years, with even a decision being made.

Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 258 total)