Greenday1Pak F-16 may upset power balance
New Delhi: Pakistan’s acquisition of additional F-16 combat jets is “an area of concern” as this would upset the balance of power in South Asia, Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi said on Thursday.
Addressing a press conference ahead of the 74th IAF Day on Sunday, Tyagi spoke on a wide range of issues including the acquisition of additional aircraft, missiles and anti-missile systems, the creation of an Aerospace Command, and a controversy on whether or not the IAF should celebrate its platinum jubilee from October 8.
Speaking about the US decision to sell additional 36 F-16s to Pakistan and to upgrade its existing fleet of 32, Tyagi, who is known for calling a spade a spade, described this as “an area of concern”.
“If the balance of power in the region changes then this has to be taken into account but I would not call it a worrisome development as some (in the media) are saying,” he said.
“We keep a close watch on what is happening around us and alter our doctrines accordingly,” Tyagi added.
His statement came a day after he attended a high-level meeting convened by Cabinet Secretary B K Chaturvedi to consider Pakistan’s growing military strength and India’s response to this.
It was noted at the meeting that the IAF’s combat strength had come down to 34 against a sanctioned level of 39 due to the delay in floating tenders for 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA).
Responding to a question, Tyagi maintained that changes in India’s defence procurement policy in 2005 and 2006 had caused a two-year delay but promised, “we are now pretty close to the baby being delivered”.
His suggestion to Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee that the process be fast-tracked has been shot down, but the Air Chief refused to comment on this, saying his communications on the issue were confidential.
when the current US admin cleared the F-16 sale, did not this same guy or the previous ACM state the F-16s would NOT upset the air balance? What gives? 😎
Greenday1yeah, there is some inside info, but you may not like it! :diablo:
Greenday1So everybody’s sharpening their claws today at the same time ? Take a number peepul 😀
Its flatering I attract you lot in your hordes, if any of you can put up sensible arguments rather then just claw sharpening that would be fun.
How comes you guys always turn up at the same time anyway? 😉
Greenday1No
I said Indian media reported the evaluation, as did Pakistan media. AFM actually reports PAF about to order this type.
6 Erieyes can provide Pakistan with 24/7 coverage asuming 2 up in the air contstantly.
2 for the entire country on a 24 hours basis can be down in war.
Add to this Chinese AWACs and rest assured, an “aggresive” posture can be adopted with that many resources.
IL-76 is a four engined turbofan powered cargo aircraft from former USSR.
SAAB 2000 is a western turbo prop civilian aircraft.
Guess which will be easier to maintain and get higher sortie rates.
Greenday1No, was shared by yoyur very own Indian media who reported the evaluation of Chinese AWACs in Pak, AFM thsi month reports the news. Obviously when the order is confirmed we can jump up and down more.
The fact is even with 2-3 “indigenous” AWACs, 6 Phalcons (if extra are ordered), that will still leave Indian with
1) fewer AWACs then PAF
2) Much larger area to defend
3) Chinese border to look after
4) IL-76 airframe much more maintence intensive and having more down time and less availability then SAAB 2000 airframe of Erieye
Please try and argue logically rather then posting links to “amusing” wikepedia words, its would do yoru much shattered credibility a world of good.
Greenday1Rotflmao…10-12 vs- 3-5! 😀
I am sorry if math is a difficult subject. IAF cureently has 3 Phalcons on order, may order 2-3 more, and its “indegious” AWACs is still a non entity.
PAF had 6 Erieye on firm order and 6-8 Chinese AWACs is waiting to be confirmed. What part of this equationis puzzelling you?
Greenday1Fighter radar ranges, for the IAF are sensitive, so I would avoid going there (and request my brethren to also follow better judgement and not yap) but I can point to one statement:
It is very unlikely that the PAFs AWACs can continue to give them adequate SA deep into India. The PAF is likely to use a conservative deployment of its AWACs, many Km deep into Pak, and use them defensively to create interlocking zones with significat overlap to reduce the impact of the IAF’s SEAD efforts. But it will also want to take the fight into India & for counterair missions, it will have to rely on its fighters onboard sensors.
And here, I would definitely give the advantage to the Su-30 in combination with the IAF’s ADGES.
Completely wrong. With 6 Erieyes on order and a “larger number” of Chinese AWACs on order (according to AFM this month) PAF may well be operating 10-12 AWACs compared to 3-5 for India. Taking into account Pakistan is also a 5th of teh size of India. I dont think so many AWACs are needed just to cover Pakistan. Of course, it may help you sleep better if you think we WONT be deploying these aggressivley in the counter air role over India.
Greenday1Not to forget that PAF actually had a Mirage 2000-5 Project team and director set up when a purchase of this aircraft was imminent in the 90s.
I think current ACM may have even been Mirage 200-5 project director but could be wrong.
Also, there is a massive doctrinal debate within PAF going on that many people dont know about.
In its existance, every fighter pilot in every sqd has been multi role trained.
A-5 pilots do their share of QRA duty and F-7 pilots pratice alot of air to air. Almost equal measure is given to both duties.
With Erieye, F-16C/D, JF-17 and J-10, many see a requirement for far more time and resources to be delpoyed on air defence, especially as PAF will be kept very busy with the IAF. As a result, some squadrons may become “pure” air defence sqaudrons and give up any ground attack role.
These “pure” air defence sqaudrons may be the 3 J-10 sqaudrons the PAF is planning to create.
Greenday1I hope we never forget their help…
American Chinook return to Pakistan to mark 1st anniversary of the earthquake
Thursday October 05, 2006 (0107 PST)
ISLAMABAD: Several American CH-47 Chinook aircraft have returned to Pakistan in order to mark first anniversary of the October 8 earthquake in Pakistan, told a press release issued here Wednesday.
According to the press release the Chinooks will be in Pakistan over the next week to deliver reconstruction material including 10,000 corrugated iron sheets for individual homes in remote parts of Allai and Kaghan Valleys.
During last year quake?s relief activities America provided twenty-one CH-47 Chinooks which delivered about 14,000 tons of relief supplies and evacuated more than 3000 casualties in the quake-hit areas. The people in the affected areas came to call the Chinooks “Angels of Mercy” because of its fast and effective responses.
The United States has pledged $ 206 million in earthquake reconstruction assistance to Pakistan over the next four years. This is in addition to $ 1.5 billion program that USAID will provide over the next five years to improve education, health, governance and economic growth.
Greenday1No, you wont have anything near the density of helicopters of “wealthy” nations.
1) Not really required, as IA is not an expiditionary Army and required to fight battles abroad.
2) IA is 1 million men plus, even 1,000 helicopters is nowhere near the desnity required
3) Alot of choppers will be retired. MI-8s and Alouttes will have to be retired
4) Alot of these choppers wont be of use to the Army and actually tied up ferrying supplies to Siachin
Greenday1What is the procedure for inducting J10s into the PAF?
We keep hearing about IOC and FOC for the Tejas, however no such process is in the news for these new aircraft which supposedly are in the advanced stages of being inducted into the PAF
Admittedly India is far more open then China with regards to reporting on military affairs, although ACM of PAF, does give occasional interviews. The latest news (posted earlier in this thread) is that 36 F-10As are on order.
Procedure will be the same as with any other programme and outlined by Mark Sien
Greenday1The people who ranted about “neutered” F-16s may in fact soon find out, these birds may well be F-16s on steroids!!!!! :dev2:
Greenday1PAF F-16s will be getting full EW capability. “Some” SEAD capability and the ability to use drougue air to air refuelling systems. US presence will consist of Air Force and LMTAS personnel. Limited to one Air Force Base.
Obviously you may or may not choose to believe me.
Greenday1No one should try and justify China not willing to export anything to Pakistan. If they supported our Nuke and Missile programmes, then J-10 should not be a problem. Heck, for even a few SU-30s to go “missing” in teh secreticve state may benefit Pakistans Combat Commanders School, although you would never get a press relaease on it. Certainly Russians do not have strict monitoring on their aircraft.
China has about 100 J-10s in service right?
36 more 2-3 years down the road for PAF should be no problem at all….
Greenday1There are 34 LCA’s currently on order, plus the 3 prototypes of which 28 are for the IAF alone. The IAF has 20 more “on option”, which they will exercise upon the LCA reaching IOC to keep the production lines humming. Once the FOC is reached (another 2 years after IOC), the bulk orders for the fleet will be placed.
From the CNN-IBN report, on the “leaked” paper asking for quicker MRCA delivery, ACM Tyagi mentions quicker induction of the LCA to make up for delays in the MRCA purchase. Harry has already posted ACM Tyagis mention of assigning project personnel from the AF directly to the LCA team.
The current LCA test team crew includes 4 of the seniormost operational staff in the IAF, including Group Captains, all of whom could have been assigned to operational units instead. Every indication is that the IAF wants the LCA and wants it fast.
Meanwhile, the Navy chief has noted his views on the LCA purchase as well, saying that his force will wait for the LCA-N come what may .
Thats another two squadrons – ~ 30 aircraft.
Could be, but per all previous reports, the IAF will wait for IOC to exercise the remaining option of 20, and then place orders at FOC (bulk production).
HAL currently has its orderbook full with:
-34 LCAs to be manufactured (including prototypes)
-@ 14 Su-30 MKIs/ Year to be achieved
– Assemble 44 HAWK AJTs, with engines being manufactured in India
– Complete the IJT Program & bring it to serial production with IAF & IN orders of upto 200- 250 with production @ 20 / Yr
– Finish the CAT design and develop and launch prototype
-Finalize & launch the MTA project with Irkutsk, IAPO
– Upgrade the 40 Jaguars & 40 MiG27s, with more orders in the next plan
– Upgrade the MiG-29 fleet (2007 onwards)This apart the MRCA order, which will also come in with substantial TOT.
These are without even their chopper plans & the UAV ones..
I think its high time, L&T or someone was also roped in for a second aircraft manufacturing facility, provided they are ready to invest..
You dont think that IAF may just adopt limited numbers like the Army did with Arjun? and what we might see is that LCA will turn into a tech demonstrator and stepping stone for a MCA project? Afterall, it seems that any aircraft that will form part of teh MRCA deal will be superior to the LCA?
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