Fameout? Yeah, sure. When the Stinger hit it, its flame went out. 😉

Anyway, what happened to the massive amount of evidence you were going to post on PAF “neautered” F-16s.

Am asking for 7th time now?

Whats the matter? 😀

If there is a PAF or PN left after the first week, it would be a tremendous achievement. Second week would be unnecessary.

Lets wait and see, but in the past 10 years IAF has lost approx 4 aircraft to PAF/Pak Army. So lets just wait and see…..

Who knows, in any war some of yoru pilots may get a “lock on” and return tio base to receive medals! 🙂

Greenday enough proof and transcripts of discussions in US senate have been provided. I would think they now more than kasuri?? whoever this joker is. Yes by neutered I meant the non flexible EW suites. Only time will tell what PAF would finally get. But I am not holding my breath.

If this is fresh news then the chances are we have successfully renegotiated with the US. Could explain the delay in signing the contract with LMTAS. Our Air Force refusing this deal unless we got the DFRM and now go ahead given?

As you say, lets wait and see what PAF finally order.

6th time

Evidence about our neatured F-16s that you claim we are getting? Still none?

Some news for you fresh in today pal!

http://www.pakistantimes.net/2006/09/19/top2.htm

Pakistan wants F-16s which fulfill Defense Needs: Kasuri
‘By Khalida Mazhar ‘Pakistan Times’ US Bureau Chief

NEW YORK (US): Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmood Kasuri said Sunday that Pakistan has ensured that there were no bottlenecks in the delivery of F-16s, and the country is in the serious business of buying aircraft that suit its defense needs.

“We have ensured that the past experience is not repeated,” he told a press conference, while replying to a question about the United States’ delivery of the super-sophisticated fighter jets as per its commitment.

Kasuri made it clear that Pakistan is in the business of buying the aircraft that are of high quality and fulfill the requirements of its air force and refuted the suggestion to the contrary.

“Pakistan is not looking for remote-controlled toys – we need high-performance aircraft,” he stated firmly. Pakistan, he pointed out, is paying a hefty sum of US dollars five billions and what the country is acquiring is – bang for the buck.”

In response to a related question, Foreign Minister Kasuri stated that the United States has not set any unusual preconditions for purchase of the aircraft by Pakistan and the only condition pertains to non-transfer of the technology, which he said is a general rule in all such deals.

The Foreign Minister informed journalists that the upcoming meeting between President Musharraf and President Bush in Washington would review bilateral cooperation in an array of fields including energy, economy, education, science and technology etc.

“The meeting has significance in that this is for the first time that the two leaders will be meeting in the wake of Pakistan and US reaching a strategic partnership in March this year during the American President’s visit to Islamabad.

“Since then the bilateral strategic dialogue has picked up between the two partners and the two presidents now will have the opportunity to review progress in this respect,” he added.

Presdient Musharraf’s visit, he emphasized, will focus on furthering Pakistan-US ties in a broad range of fields and brushed aside the suggestion that Afghanistan might become a major issue in view of the Afghan President also visiting Washington immediately following the Pakistani leader’s talks at the White House.

He expressed the hope that there would be progress vis-a-vis establishment of reconstruction opportunity zones in the tribal areas. The idea was floated and discussed during President Bush’s visit to Islamabad.

Bilateral Investment Treaty

On prospects of a bilateral investment treaty, the Foreign Minister observed that a lot of pertinent issues have been resolved but said it was not likely to conclude during the current visit and pointed to sustained inflow of American investment into various promising areas of the Pakistani economy.

Pakistan, he said would safeguard its interests in respect of concluding the bilateral investment treaty with the United States.

Speaking of the recent peace pact in North Waziristan, the Foreign Minister made it clear that Pakistan would not be pulling out troops from the area and “in fact, would be able now to patrol the border region.”

He said the deal with tribal elders is aimed at isolating the extremists and weaning away the youth from the influence of extremist elements.

Under the agreement, he explained, the tribal leaders have assured to put a firm check on any cross- order movement. Moreover, he added, the tribal leaders have committed not to allow any foreigner indulge in extremist violence.

He said the foreigners are unhappy with the deal but said “Pakistan would not be deterred in the face of any efforts to undermine the agreement.”

Replying to a question, he said if successful the deal could be replicated across the border by the Afghanistan as well.”This is a holistic approach having military, political, administrative and economic and reconstruction aspects.”

Havana Summit

Briefing journalists about the Havana meeting between President Musharraf and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India, he said with flexibility and boldness, the two countries could resolve the outstanding disputes.

In response to a question, he explained that the President’s statement about withdrawal of troops from Azad Kashmir is not a new idea but has been Pakistan’s stand that it would reciprocate if India withdraws its forces from the Occupied Kashmir.

On the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline, he expressed the optimism that the project would be implemented. He disclosed that during a meeting with President Musahrraf, the Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmedinejad expressed his desire to host both the Pakistani leader and the Indian Prime Minister in Teheran on making progress on the issue.

However, the Foreign Minister saw prospects of such a meeting taking place around November, once the

international consultants come out with benchmarks of gas pricing.

Fielding a question on Lebanon, the Foreign Minister said Pakistan has not taken a decision on sending its troops for the UN peacekeeping mission in the Middle Eastern country and is only sending army experts for mine clearing in the war-hit areas.

He reported a cautious optimism in Europe about a peaceful resolution of Iranian nuclear question and said Pakistan stood for a diplomatic settlement of the issue as Pakistan wants peace and stability in the region.●

5th time

Evidence aircraft will be “neatured”

Lacking DFRM does not make an EW syste meatured. PAF can pre-programme threats into this.

Please explain how lack of DFRM makes EW systems obsolete. Certainkly less flexible, yes, but obsolete?

Is this the great revalation!?

Wow! So you mean our F-16s cannot launch JDAMS, Bunker busters and AMRAAMs?

:p

Nah, I am tired of whacking you around. I mean anyone, anyone, would have got tired of all the thrashing you have taken in thread after thread, but Yasser, there you are- “Can I have more, sir”?

Uh oh namecalling again!

If you cant debate like a civilized person (not saying you are one), its best you go back to Pakdef & hang around with all the other fellers you so adore. :p

Hillens statement & the article show quite clearly the meaning of the word – “neutered”.

Think about it.

4th time I will ask. Evidence regarding how the actual F-16 AIRCRAFT will be neatured.

Still no evidence?

Hilliens does not say anything about the tehcnical apects of teh aircraft. Again we are slowling outting paid to many lies on this forum.

No commitment beyond these 28?

Are you serious Vikas? I would say exactly the opposite, or rather a mix of both. In the case of the PAF suppose you were inducting 3 entirely new types, JF-17, J-10, XXX each with teething troubles – now if there was a conflict in between?
At least now, theres a mix of two unproven and one proven (ie one which LM has worked all the kinks out of, worldwide).

Look at the entire package. The EW system is sorely lacking, and which might put pilots at risk, but in a pinch the PAF could take losses, even if severe and at least counterattack into InAF territory. Plus in a defensive role its fairly ok- decent radar, missiles and good dogfighter.

Well ask Greenday1 this- he’s saying that the Senate will not be informed.

If you look at US Aid figures some substantial money has flown to Pak, so a portion of this could be US money.

And considering per unit costs – I’d think these are cheaper than Dash 5 M2ks and plus you save on logistics cost at airbases/retraining etc thanks to experience with prior F-16s. So you would have got less Mirages is my guess. French PGMs/ Missiles even if full spec are very expensive. US has made so many airframes and rounds, that its costs have been amortized and its prices are reasonable unless you ask for bleeding edge stuff (AESA etc)

I think the PAF should have just gone for French even if more expensive (even the Mirage series is proven), but I think Pak is too deeply tied with the F-16 & the F-16 issue from US is more than just economics & plain tech as well, theres an emotive angle to it as well given past history.

It may shock you to learn this, but PAF does not order planes on “emotions”.

Either F-16 can do the job or it cant. Dont tell me, the AMRAAM C5s, JDAMS and Bunker Buster bombs being delivered are all “neatured” too huh!?

How much “neutering” will occure when these are fired in combat?