I agree, I am not saying Pak would do it without US approval, my point is it can be done at a later stage away from the prying eyes of congress.

Additionally, all the aboves does still not indicate in anyway, how these F-16s will be TECHNOLOGICALLY different from the normal Block 52s.

There will be a US presence, big deal.

I guess the US senate must have been given wrong information, while the real stats were handed over to kasuri :).

Actually, the only thing that teh birds cannot do is DFRM function on EW. When it comes to “defence needs” the APG-68/AMRAAM combo is exactly what Pakistan needs in teh air defence role. Additionly we can add DFRM anytime in the future or get them from a third party.

In a previous thread, I had pointed out Senor Greendays incredible smoke and mirrors show- basically showing a lot of stuff, which doesnt address ANY of the issues being raised.

Lets see all that he has bolded. 😀

Any remarks about specific systems sold? Any remarks about Saudi and Pakistan coming to each others aid in times of conflict? No.

But what we have is the usual bureaucratic BS that every country signs when its delegation goes to the other country.

India recently signed a “defense agreement with Germany”. Obviously, tomorrow we shall see Bundeswehr Leopards in India to support an armoured thrust :rolleyes: & Germans Tornados supporting IAF MKIs. :rolleyes:

And let me end with another rhetorical flourish, almost worthy of Greenday1.

The Chief Guest for India’s republic day in 2006

and of course minor things as well as this.

All this in 2006. Yippie yay yay. :rolleyes:

None of yoru links are at all defence related. There is no way any Arab country will sign a major defence deal with India. Firstly Indias relationship with Isreal and there is another reason too..

Of course teh Arabs will do business with Inda, both sides stand to profit. But the Saudi King was a guest on Republic Day!? Wow! Thats put paid to our defence relationship. In which case China will probably abandon Pakistan too when their prmier vists Dehli!? Are we grasping at straws here!? 😀

I am tired contridicting you and correcting you goons all the time!

See ya round!

The below are reports just from 2006

Read and weep

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=96910

Saudi Arabia to purchase defence equipments from Pakistan
RAWALPINDI: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has showed great interest in purchasing Defence equipments including Al-Khalid Tanks, Super Mushshak Aircraft and latest Border Security equipment from Pakistan.
The interest was shown by the leader of 10 member Saudi delegation, led by Lt. General Talal Bin Mohsin Ali Al Anqawi who met with the senior Federal Minister, Rao Sikandar Iqbal here on Monday.

The two sides discussed matters of mutual interest and desired to enhance defence collaboration between the two countries. The senior Minister for Defence on welcoming the visiting delegation paid great gratitude for the financial and material support provide by Saudi Arabia for the relief and reconstruction efforts in earthquake hit areas.

The minister also underlined the fact that Pakistan had cordial relations with Saudi Arabia. He assured the visiting delegation of finalizing the next three years follow on contract for Super Mushshak Aircraft and sale of additional 20 Super Mushshak aircraft to RASF.

He guaranteed the supply of border security equipments, required by Saudi Arabia whereas the leader of Saudi delegation thanked the senior minister for extending great support in the field of defence.

Paramilitary interaction with Saudi Arabia to foster defence bonds’

——————————————————————————–

KARACHI (May 13 2006): Pakistan Rangers Sindh Director General Major General Javed Zia on Friday said that effective interaction between Pakistani and Saudi paramilitary forces will help in further fostering the defence ties between the two friendly Muslim countries.

He was talking to newsmen after departure of a high-level military delegation from Saudi Arabia, led by Director General, Border Guard, Lieutenant General Talal bin Mohsin Ali Al Angawi to Pakistan Rangers (Sindh) Training Centre and School, “Home of Rangers” here.

He said that effective interaction between paramilitary troops of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia will provide expertise and experiences sharing opportunities to each other.

Referring to his meeting with the visiting delegates, he said, they have shown great interest in the training procedures at the Home of Rangers. Major General Javed Zia said this is the first ever visit of any foreign military delegation to Rangers Training Centre.

He said Rangers is a paramilitary force, which was assigned the tasks by the civil administration to facilitate the police force in maintaining law and order. He said some countries have shown interest to utilise the services of Rangers Training Centre and School to impart training to their security personnel.

Speaking about the training facilities at the Centre, he said this is one of the best training centres of the world, adding that the visiting delegation has also highly appreciated the training methods at the Home of Rangers.

Earlier, he briefed the visiting delegation about the activities and responsibilities of Pakistan Rangers and available training facilities at the Centre.

Copyright Associated Press of Pakistan, 2006

Vital defence accord likely

From SHAIQ HUSSAIN
ISLAMABAD – Pakistan and Kuwait are likely to reach a vital agreement on joint defence production as Kuwaiti Amir Sheikh Sabah Al Ahmed Al Jaber Al Sabah arrives here Monday (today) on a two-day official visit.
“The two states will also push forward their talks on the proposed Pak-Kuwait Extradition Treaty to facilitate the exchange of criminals and wanted persons,” said a senior official here while talking to The Nation on the eve of Kuwaiti ruler’s visit to Pakistan.
Apart from that Kuwaiti leader was likely to announce increase in Kuwait’s investment for Pakistan, especially in the energy sector, he added. “Kuwait is interested to invest in the proposed oil refinery near Gwadar Port and Sheikh Sabah would discuss the issue in detail with President Musharraf,” he added.
The visit of Kuwaiti Amir was part of his four-nation Asian tour, he said. The last visit of a Kuwaiti ruler to Pakistan took place in 1980, he added.
The Kuwaiti leader will hold formal talks today (Monday) with President Pervez Musharraf after his arrival in the evening. On Tuesday (tomorrow) he would have a meeting with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz. Kuwait Amir would also inaugurate Pak-Kuwait Investment Conference to be held here during his visit to Islamabad, the official said.
The Amir’s entourage includes senior cabinet ministers including the ministers of foreign affairs, finance and energy, as well as a strong business delegation comprising some of the leading Kuwaiti entrepreneurs and investors, according to a Foreign Office statement.
Since the establishment of diplomatic relations in 1963, Pakistan and Kuwait have maintained close and cordial relations. High-level contacts have remained a distinctive feature of the special relations between the two countries.
President Musharraf has twice visited Kuwait, in December 2005 and earlier in 1999. The prime minister visited Kuwait in January 2006 to condole the death of the late Amir Sheikh Jaber Al-Ahmed Al-Jaber Al-Sabeh.
The present Amir had also visited Pakistan in 1993 and 1997 in his capacity as deputy prime minister and foreign minister to attend the OIC meetings.
According to Foreign Office, the Amir of Kuwait will hold comprehensive talks with the President on a range of issues of interest and concern to both countries.
The President will host a state banquet in his honour. The visit programme also includes the Amir’s meeting with the prime minister who will host a lunch in his honour.
Some bilateral cooperation agreements are expected to be signed during the visit, aiming to further bolster bilateral relations, specifically in the economic and investment areas.
Kuwait is Pakistan’s third largest economic partner in the Gulf Cooperation Council, after Saudi Arabia and the UAE. It is also a principal source of oil and petroleum products for Pakistan.
In the aftermath of October earthquake, Kuwait announced assistance of $100 million for the relief and rehabilitation operation.
In the area of investment, the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development is currently financing seven projects worth $245 million in Pakistan. Around 125,000 Pakistanis are gainfully employed in Kuwait, who constitute a significant source of foreign exchange to the country

Pak Observer (04/04/06)

Aroosa Alam

Islamabad—Pakistan and Oman have agreed to expand relations in diverse areas including economic, trade, investment, education and defence.

This was stated by Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmood Kasuri and his Omanese counterpart Yousaf Bin Alawi Bin Abdullah following their talks at the Foreign Office Monday afternoon.

Pakistan invited Oman to consider building storage and warehouse facilities in Gwadar, which is emerging as a key port. Oman has also been asked to make use of Pakistan’s defence production capabilities and facilities. The Foreign Minister expressed his satisfaction that Gulf Air flights to Islamabad have commenced. This would encourage people-to-people contacts and facilitate further cementing of trade ties between the two countries.

He said they exchanged views on key regional and international issues of concern to both the countries. These included the Middle-East peace process, formation of the new Palestinian government, the continuing violence in Iraq, Iran’s nuclear issue and the global phenomenon of terrorism. They also discussed the challenges faced by the Muslim Ummah and the need for OIC to provide an effective instrument to advance our common interests.

Pakistan and Oman took note of Islamophobia in certain sections of the West and condemned publication of blasphemous sketches. They agreed to take all possible steps to promote inter-faith harmony and inter-civilizational understanding. They appreciated OIC’s efforts at developing a comprehensive strategy to prevent the defamation of religions and holy prophets. Foreign Minister Kasuri also briefed his Omanese counterpart on the ongoing composite dialogue with India. He told him that Pakistan hopes that the process would lead to the resolution of all outstanding issues with India, including the Kashmir dispute.

Pakistan told Oman that peace and stability in Afghanistan is in its vital interest. On Iran’s nuclear issue, Pakistan maintained that it needed to be resolved through amicable and peaceful means. Pakistan is opposed to any coercive measures against Iran.

The Foreign Minister of Oman said the two countries have identical views on issues of interest to them. Mr. Yousuf Bin Alawi Bin Abdullah held out an assurance that Gwadar remains a priority for Oman. He said Oman has already announced a package of 100 million dollars for the development of Gwadar. Of this, 20 million dollars have already been spent while the remaining 80 million dollars would be utilized for projects after town planning of the city is completed. To a question he said Gwadar port project does not pose any challenge to Oman’s economy. In fact, he said, they are working to ensure that Gwadar port and the Industrial Port of Oman complement each other and contribute towards development of the two countries.

He told another questioner that Balochistan has huge prospects for prosperity and these can be exploited in an atmosphere of peace and stability. He said Balochistan is located at a strategic location and can serve several land-locked countries.

Replying a question he said Oman is working with Iran and Western countries to avoid any possible crisis and resolve the problem through peaceful means. About human rights violation in Occupied Kashmir he said these are source of concern for every body and are condemnable. To a question the Omanese Foreign Minister said Hamas has been elected in a fair and democratic elections and hoped that it would pursue policies that would serve Palestinian people. He said there is a lot of pressure on the new government to recognize Israel.

Saturday, April 15, 2006

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia set to rewrite defence cooperation deal

* Islamabad will also transfer technology to Riyadh under new agreement
By Maryam Hussain

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are rewriting a 24-year-old defence deal in the backdrop of the fast changing scenario in the Gulf region and now both countries will hold joint war exercises and Islamabad will transfer war technology to Riyadh.

The new military deal is being signed on the request of Saudi Arabia. The Pakistan Army has been sending its armed personnel on deputation on the request of Saudi Arabia since 1982, now Saudi Arabia wants a new defence treaty to get maximum benefits from the Pakistan Army.

The draft agreement has been submitted to President General Pervez Musharraf for final approval. The federal cabinet meeting Wednesday with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz in the chair gave a go ahead to the Ministry of Defence to revise the old military cooperation pact signed in 1982 when General Ziaul Haq was ruling Pakistan and Shah Khalid was the monarch of Saudi Arabia.

Earlier, the Ministry of Defence sent a draft agreement to Saudi Arabia for approval, but Saudi Arabia raised some objections. After developing consensus on the agreement, the Defence Ministry got it approved from the cabinet.

According to the Defence Ministry, in terms of the rules of business of 1973, the prime minister had to approve the signing of the military cooperation agreement with Saudi Arabia.

The agreement is meant to strengthen existing bilateral relations and enhance military and defence cooperation in various fields between the armed forces of both countries. A Defence Ministry summary said that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Defence Production and Joint Staff Headquarters had also cleared and supported the agreement. The Ministry of Law and Justice had also vetted the agreement.

The earlier agreement on the deputation of Pakistan’s armed forces and personnel and military training was signed between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on December 14, 1982. The new agreement will cover areas related to cooperation in the field of training, deputation, transfer of technology, exchange of experience, purchase of weapons systems, equipments, spare parts and military medical services.

Khaleej Times

By a staff reporter

30 April 2006

ABU DHABI — Pakistan and the UAE yesterday signed a historic Defence Cooperation Agreement (DCA) to further boost the existing military relations.

The agreement was inked by Lieutenant-General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of UAE Army Staff and General Ehsan-ul-Haq, Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, Pakistan, at the Armed Forces Officers Club here.

During the meeting that was attended by a number of officers and members of the delegation accompanying the senior Pakistani general, avenues of cooperation between the two countries and ways to boost them were discussed.

General Ehsan-ul-Haq, who arrived in the capital on Friday evening, had a busy day yesterday. In the morning, he went to the grave of Father of the Nation, Shaikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan to offer Fateha and pay his tributes to a statesmen, who made his country an oasis of economic development and peace.

In his remarks, on the visitor’s book, he wrote: “With the passing of President Shaikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, the world in general and Islamic Ummah in particular have lost a visionary leader, who served the humanity in every possible way through his wisdom and vision. The humanity misses a leader and prays for the departed soul to rest in eternal peace.”

Later, General Ehsan-ul-Haq called on his counterpart at the General Headquarters and discussed with him matters of mutual interest and ways to enhance the existing cooperation in the field of defence. On his arrival at the GHQ, he was given a guard of honour and introduced to senior officers. Later, he called on the UAE Army Chief and discussed the military cooperation between the two countries. He termed the defence agreement with the UAE as “historic, which reflects the cordial relations between the two nations”.

Both the countries have strong bonds due to their leadership sharing similar views on regional and international issues during the last three decades. Credit goes to the Founding Father of the UAE who had been instrumental in nurturing the bonds of friendship which have matured to a level where people of the two countries are benefiting greatly in the field of economy, business, trade and culture, General Ehsan-ul-Haq said.

The fraternal relations between the two countries can be measured from the fact that Pakistan’s President General Pervez Musharraf has visited the UAE three times in a period of less than one year. The UAE President, His Highness Shaikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, and General Shaikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the UAE Armed Forces, have paid visits to hold high level talks to review the bilateral relations.

The recent mega deal of taking over Pakistan Telecommunication Corporation (PTCL) also signifies the importance of growing economic ties between the two countries, while exciting business ventures in the pipeline would further navigate the bilateral friendship in the field of economy to new heights.

The UAE leadership has always reached out to Pakistani people in their hour of distress, which is evident from October 8 devastating tremblor which ruined Pakistan’s Kashmir and hilly northern areas.

On the instructions of Shaikh Khalifa and His Highness Shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, an air bridge was immediately established to send rescue teams and relief goods. The two field hospitals the UAE set up in the most-affected region of Balakot and Muzaffarabad helped saved tens of hundreds lives. Over hundred severely injured earthquake victims were brought to Shaikh Zayed Military Hospital Abu Dhabi for surgical procedures.

LOL what muslim world? The ones who don’t give a damn about pakistan:)

You really have no idea. I dont wantto post a MASSIVE list of aid the Muslim world has given Pakistan. This is an IAF thread afterall, but Arabs would never dream of giving aircraft and free oil to India. They have doen this on numerous occasions to Pakistan. In active defiance of India. In fact, Arabs have often shown two fingers to India and still India sends its workers over there. :dev2:

greenday it depends a single Nuc. reactor deal can probably offset all of the above!!

Yes, and in this scenario it may actually be a case of India agreeing to French demands rather then vice versa to get itsself French nuke tech. If India said to France it will not buy French nuke tech just due to French sale of subs, that would be the biggest stratigic blunder this decade for India……

Face it, when it comes to high tech kit, it is actually still a sellers market, the sooner India realises that the better.

British and German arms sales to Isreal did not stop Saudis, Kuwatis etc from buying from them, like wise everyone who sells to Greece and Turkey or Malaysia and Singapore. Heck, China could not stop Mirage 2000-5 sale to Tawain.

As mentioned earlier, Pak has an excellent defence relationship with most GCC countries. The moment they find out about any difficulties Pak may have with France, then that will far outweigh any Indian order.

Right now, India does not do anything about it because,simply, IT CANNOT.

A 3rd – Harpy drones. IIRC, China bought some without US objections. Some time later, China sent some back to Israel for upgrading. This time, the USA objected, so the contract was cancelled. I’m not sure if they were returned to China without the upgrade, or stayed in Israel.

BTW, the USA took a long time to give Pakistan back the money for the F-16s. Not until after Pakistan co-operated in the invasion of Afghanistan, IIRC.

Wrong. Pakistan was reimbursed way before 2001. Check your facts before posting. In fact it was done by Clinton not Dubya.