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RonaldV

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  • in reply to: The immortal Herk, for all your pics 'n propaganda #2543561
    RonaldV
    Participant

    I think I saw a model of a Herc flying boat (with inverted engines mounted on top of the wing à la P-3) and one of a Herc on floats a long time ago.

    Were these serious proposals, and does anyone here have those pics?

    in reply to: New Ju.52 in the UK? #1250567
    RonaldV
    Participant

    You are talking about Fokker and civilian, where does the firefly fit in?

    It doesn’t, unless Aviodrome decided that the aircraft carrier Karel Doorman, or even Dutch naval aviation as a whole is also a key part of the post-war era. As far as I know, they did not, but Aviodrome DOES in fact have a lot of ex-Marine Luchtvaartdienst (MLD) types in the inventory. A Neptune is almost comletely restored (albeit not officially airworthy), there is a PBY-5A flying, and several other ex-MLD aircraft are also property of Aviodrome. There are other former military types too, such as a complete MiG-21.

    Aviodrome only relatively recently decided on the new strategy. It’ll take some time before airframes will be traded for better fitting other airframes. They may be interesting offerings that do not fit the strategy. There may be offerings that require input from third parties. These things take time. You cannot expect the best offer if you just put the aircraft up for sale at eBay. That’s not how museums work.

    in reply to: New Ju.52 in the UK? #1251144
    RonaldV
    Participant

    Still somewhat hard to grasp . The Spitfire was a direct part of Dutch aviation in the immediate post war years. Whilst the theme of civil aviation and Fokker built aviation is interesting – how many civilian types can you acquire that are relevant without having to built replica’s?

    The Spit was a direct part, but the military theme is already adressed (and very well I might add) by the RNLAF Historical Flight and the Military Aviation Museum (MLM) at Kamp Zeist (near Soesterberg AB).

    Don’t get confused: The two major themes at Aviodrome are not “Civil, as long as it is Fokker”, it is “Civilian aviation”, and “Fokker”. That leaves many more options: The history and fleets of KLM, Martinair, Transavia and smaller aviation companies would fit within the “civilian aviation” theme, allowing for the foreign DC-2 (two examples: PH-AJU “Uiver”, the sole flying DC-2 in the world, and an ex-RAAF example), DC-3/C-47 and DC-4/C-54, Lockeed L-749, Caravelle (cockpit section only) and Boeing-747, but the “Fokker” theme would allow (para-)military types like Starfighter, F-16, F-27Martime and S.11 also.
    btw: when I say Fokker, I should make it clear that Fokker was not the only Dutch aircraft manufacturer; Spyker (that’s right, the company of the Formula1 racing team), Koolhoven, Pander and others were also building aircraft, but Fokker is by far the largest name.

    Focussing on these two subjects would prevent the Aviodrome from having “alien” types with no direct relationship to the Netherlands. An aircraft like the Koolhoven F.K. 23 Bantam (built in 1919, restoration completed in 2003, original) should be in the Netherlands for instance, just like a Fokker F.VII, the aircraft that made the world’s first intercontinental revenue flight from Amsterdam to Batavia (now Jakarta).

    As for having to build replicas: there is still plenty around the world to be added to the existing collection. For instance: the frame and pilot’s seat of Fokker F.8 PH-AED/PJ-AED (ex-KLM “Duif”) were recovered from the jungles of Venezuela, and are now stored pending restauration/rebuilt at Aviodrome. They are the only remains of a Fokker F.8 in the world. Same thing for a Fokker B.4 (stored pending restauration) flying boat. Same thing for an incomplete Fokker S.4 (on display, pending restauration to airworthy condition). A Fokker-built “replica” (1994, with original engine) of the Fokker F.2 (the first purpose-built airliner in the world) is on display. A Pander glider is on display. Many pre-war types may be lying about anywhere on the planet, as Fokker was THE aircraftmanufacturer of the 1920s and early 30s.

    Post-war: Aviodrome currently has two N.H.I. Kolibri helicopters (including the prototype) and a Alsema Sagitta (the only Dutch series-produced performance-)glider, a Fokker S.11 Instructor, the prototype S-12 Instructor (series produced in Brazil), Fokker S.13 (one built, two pieces remaining: a cockpit section at the small museum at Texel Airport, and a tailsection at Aviodrome), a S.14 Machtrainer (world’s first purpose-built jet-trainer), three Fokker F.27 Friendships (1st (fuselage only) and 3rd prototype on display and 1st production example airworthy) and a Fokker50 (2nd prototype, on display) but is still short on a few post WW-II types: Fokker F.25 Promotor (20 built, 2 flown, no survivors known), Fokker F.28 Fellowship, Fokker60U, Fokker70, Fokker100 (although a cockpit section is at the museum), and a Fokker/VFW-614.

    As you can see: there is plenty to be restored, and plenty to be discovered. The Netherlands may physically not be large in size, it’s aircraft manufacturing history certainly is. Fokker was one of the last original names in Europe. It’s aircraft were sold in fairly large numbers worldwide, both before and after the war. The F.27 for instance, was the best selling turbo-prop airliner ever.

    in reply to: New Ju.52 in the UK? #1253994
    RonaldV
    Participant

    Hmmm.. they should make it civvie in thirties style and loan the C.5 to the RNLAF airforce museum..otherwise the spit sale does not make sense either

    Actually, it does. The Aviodrome is focussing on two major themes: civil aviation and Dutch aircraft manufacturers like Fokker. Fokker licence built many aircraft: the DC-2, DC-3, F-104G and F-16 for instance. So those will (probably) become part of the Aviodrome museum, along with any military types Fokker designed themselves, such as the C.5

    The Ju-52 was a regular sight at pre-war AMS in its civilian (Lufthansa) dress, so when properly restored to static condition it would fit nicely next to the orange DC-3 already parked there. The display I mentioned earlier is just a temporary display.

    There are some miltary birds that will eventually have to go. The Neptune (now in it’s final stages of restauration) is a likely example. The Draken too. As the Draken has nothing to do with the Netherlands, other than a failed sales attempt in the 70s, it is very likely to leave the country when put up for sale. The Neptune may be a different matter: it is still VERY complete, and many have flown this popular bird, so it will probably end up with some Dutch ex-MLD crew group.

    in reply to: New Ju.52 in the UK? #1255904
    RonaldV
    Participant

    Oh, auntie Ju’s gonna look great in between the vintage dc2’s and 3’s on the dispersal in front of the thirties style building there.

    Bert

    The Ju52 will be on display with a Fokker C.5 this May (well, that’s the plan anyway) dressed up as a May 1940 para-dropper from the Luftwaffe. The Fokker C.5 (the only pre-war Netherlands Air Force aircraft to have survived) will be positioned to “shoot” the Ju52. Both aircraft will be strung from the ceiling, with a walkway between them and a huge photograph of the Netherlands spread out on the floor. The idea is to give visitors the impression they are walking through an areal fight over Holland.

    The Fokker C.5 was (along with the Fokker G.1) one of the major reasons why Hitler never managed to stage an airborne raid against the UK. He simply lost too many Ju52 aircraft during the invasion of the Netherlands. So, in a way, the Dutch lost the battle, but won the war. 😉

Viewing 5 posts - 61 through 65 (of 65 total)