I wouldn’t worry about it coming into the hangar from the top in quantities greater than the scuppers can handle as that is only really a matter of small leaks around lifts and any other small openings. Any side openings should (must?) have weathertight closures. ROROs have the problem of vehicle decks low in the ship with bow doors that let it in from the front in big chunks – Herald of Free Enterprise, Estonia, etc.
Absolutely agreed on firefighting. SS Normandie/USS Lafayette went over that way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Lafayette_1942.jpg
What you don’t want in any floaty thing is ‘free surface’.
I don’t think the risk of free surface effects is likely to be the, or even a, main consideration. If you’ve got significant quantities of water that high up, you’re already sinking. Compare to ferries and large ROROs. Airframes in the hangar aren’t going to impact on free surface – it’s still free flowing around them. Packing a car deck on a ferry with cars doesn’t make it any safer.
I’d say two reasons:
1) Structural – you need to support the flight deck and a single thickness of hull at the sides is insufficient for that. Compare to a container ship – they don’t pack containers right up to the ship’s outer hull, there’s a set of void or other spaces along the whole of the side. You either have compartments along the side of the hangar or webs or pillars somewhere down the middle. The latter will create obstructions that you really don’t want in there.
2) What Al. said about trunking, stairs, lifts, plus workshops, offices, etc. that you want immediately adjacent to the aircraft maintenance space.
* note number of ‘l’s before making smart ar$ed comments
LOL! :p
DS30 would be difficult with article one of the antarctic treaty, the biggest thing Endurance carried was her MK44 minigun which can be locked below deck in keeping with treaty regulations.
Previous Endurance carried Oerlikon 20mm guns and guided missiles for her Wasp helicopters.
Article I – Peaceful purposes
1. Antarctica shall be used for peaceful purposes only. There shall be prohibited, inter alia, any measure of a military nature, such as the establishment of military bases and fortifications, the carrying out of military manoeuvres, as well as the testing of any type of weapon.2. The present Treaty shall not prevent the use of military personnel or equipment for scientific research or for any other peaceful purpose.
Doesn’t say you can’t have guns permanently mounted on ships for self-defence. Do you have another source with a different interpretation? What military vessels do other nations employ in Antarctic waters?
From other news items with more information, it will not be a newbuild but rather a bareboat charter of an existing vessel.
3) Leuchars apparently has good chances of becoming a new, civilian airport if the RAF leaves it. The government might make some money out of it on top of the savings, and the economy of the area would suffer a lot less from the closure.
Dundee already has an airport, albeit limited to regional airliners by runway length. I seriously doubt that the Dundee area can support two airports. Small net gain perhaps if Leuchars becomes an airport and Dundee closes as a result.
You are probably correct that the regional economy of northeast Fife is much less dependent on the base than in Moray.
We should consider the possibility that one or more of the bases leaving RAF use might become home to Army units returning from Germany. Which has better access to training grounds and existing Army infrastructure?
The Bay isnt available until 2012 from memory, Ark Royal should be available sometime in the next few months.
If the decision to sell it is made (if it has, it hasn’t been announced yet) the Bay (Largs Bay) is available immediately.
I recommend a time-charter with RFA crew. 😉
I had this fear that you would reference Combat Fleets as an authoritative source. 😉 It’s good as a cheap alternative to Janes, but it isn’t nearly as accurate IME.
To add a little more, you also won’t find any photographs online (or in books) of LCU Mk9 in Army service (the RCL have “ARMY” painted on them and hoist the RLC ensign). If the RLC had any, they’d be operating them from Bays, as they do Mexeflotes and LCVP Mk4.
Wrong. 3 LCU MK9 are (or have been until relatively recently if they have been retired without me hearing it, it is not easy to keep updated on this “un-fancy” kit that the internet snubs…) in service with the RLC. They are the “smaller Landing Craft Logisitc” that the British Army site mentions but does not describe. ideal world, the navy would have kept 4 old but serviceable LCU MK9 to use on the LSD(A), where the fact that they are not Ro-Ro is no problem since only one LCU is docked inside the ship, so no need to drive through the first in line to load the following craft. Can’t honestly say if this is true or if b
[snip]
Pennant number of the LCU MK9 in RLC service: 701, 705, 709.
What is your source for that? (Got a URL for the mention on the Army website?) I have *never* seen RLC operated LCU Mk9. I’ve been to Marchwood more than a few times. They used to have Landing Craft Logistic (LCL), which were quite large and more like small LSTs and they had Ramped Powered Lighters (RPL) which were somewhere between RCL and LCVP in size.
I have seen LCU Mk9 undergoing work in the boatyard at Portland in the last few years, but those could have been the last remaining RM examples.
and push finally out of service the remaining LCU MK9, also those used by the Royal Logistic Corps.
There are LCU Mk9 still in RM service? Where and with what units?
There were never any in RLC service AFAIK. They use the larger Ramped Craft Logistic (RCL).
They certainly COULD, but even the Type 45 has got the Hangar for a Merlin but is (for now) fully cleared only with Lynx for operations, even if a Merlin was shown on the deck for the first entrance in Portsmouth.
Regular visiting Merlin ops depends on whether Daring (or a sister) has conducted first of class flying trials for Merlin and has a set of SHOLs, Letters of Release, etc.
The same Type 23, they could all carry Merlins, but just a number of them are cleared for Merlin ops.
It is not so automatic.
I’d say it’s a matter of being fitted for embarked Merlin rather than “cleared”. Ancillaries, spares, etc. Stick a TAS, a tractor, some workshops, tools and spares on a Bay and it is fitted for embarked Lynx operations but otherwise is not capable.
The Waves aren’t cleared for Sea King. Argus and the Forts possibly could. The Forts most surely can, since their aviation facilities were pretty much designed for Sea King itself.
Argus and AOR have operated ASAC Sea Kings. AFSH flight facilities were designed around Sea King (albeit HAS Mk.whatever).
Ref. Waves, you are reading from HOSTACS? Though I can’t find a photo of one online, I’d be astonished if the flight deck was not cleared for Sea King. The hangar fits a Merlin, so it can only be a matter of ancillaries to support a Sea King.
After all, the Type 45 is not cleared to embark Sea King.
The only platform which will remain will be HMS Ocean eventually, or HMS Illustrious…
Left without platforms, the Sea King ASaC will be an easy target for deletion.
AOR, AFSH, Argus, (Waves?).
Here’s some info on EMALS power consumption: “The average power required by EMALS is only 6.35 MVA.”
From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/emals.htm
Also, i’m thinking that the power of the propulsion system will be insufficient to power the ship and run the catapults as well.
The CVF is not exactly overpowered, with speed projected to be just over 26 knots.
Most sources seem to quote 25knots maximum sustained speed.
(Caveat: I’m not an engineer)
Installed generating capacity = 108MW
Installed propulsion = 80MW
Giving 28MW for hotel, weapons, sensors, catapult etc. power demands, at full speed with all generators available.
The limitation on speed is the motors, not the generating capacity, so if you want CVF to go faster, you will need to install more capable motors.
IME the maximum sustained speed of modern IEP ships is limited below maximum theoretical by cooling of the propulsion system, certainly in moderately warm waters.
And while I agree that the RFAs should be able to carry a significant number of helicopters (and RHIBs or CB90s) – is this blurring the distinction between RN and RFA? – would there not be enough flat-top space in a task force already, either a carrier or an amphib?
ISTR that during recent (well, maybe a few years ago) Harrier-centric operations on CVS it was preferred to transfer Sea King ASACs to the accompanying Fort. RFAs have long been equipped to support and extend ASW helicopter operations. And I mean air weapons magazines, not just big hangars that are handy for maintenance.