read this report. it was from official ISPR and they state in early 2002 that third submarine is yet to be constructed. JDW report has no credility as far as this matter is concerned.

lmao more display of stupidity from our beloved oracle, can u actually read english? were does it say the third submarine has yet to be constructed genius, that statement is just recapping on what agreement was. So by your logic the first and second agosta werent built as well in 2002 :rolleyes: because it says

Commodore Bashir said under a deal, made by Pakistan for purchase of
Agosta submarines, it had been decided that the first submarine would be
constructed in France, while the French and Pakistani experts would build the second submarine jointly. The third submarine, under the terms of the agreement, was to be constructed in Pakistan for which the DCN, the manufacturers, would transfer complete technology, he added.

In fact it even says the trials are to be set in 2004 for 3rd agosta even thou according to you construction hasnt started, so somehow pakistan can built and launch a submarine in 2 years by your logic right eh.

The third Agosta “B”, to be built in Pakistan after transfer of
technology, was expected to be ready for trials by the end of 2004, he said.

Anyway plz dont waste my time or bandwith by posting more rubbish and insanse analogys, unless you have strong evidence to prove me wrong which states when Hamza was launched and its construction date like i have here. This from proquest 2002 article:

The third unit, the Hamza, is being fabricated at Karachi Naval Shipyard in Pakistan. The Khalid was laid down on July 15, 1995, was launched on August 13, 1998, and entered service on September 13, 1999. The second unit was considered to have had its keel laid in June 1998. The launch date for the second unit had been anticipated for sometime during 2001, with an in-service date of February 2002. This was delayed by a variety of factors, the last being the assassination of the 11 French engineers. The hull sections for the second unit were shipped on April 29,1998. The third unit of this class was laid down on January 3, 1997, with an in-service date of 2006.

10 years for 3rd augusta? from where this nonsense comes from? the deal was signed in october 1993. so it is 12 year for the whole deal. and Pak has zero ability at that time to understake project of this magnitude. i bet India cannot build faster than this even now.

sigh OFT but how many times do i have to repost the link over and over again construction of 3rd agosta started 1997 currently dcn is “hopeful” that it will completed by end of 07 (even thou it hasnt even be launched yet), 97 to 07 so that makes it what 10+ yrs?

Sub launched Brahmos will have different specs.. Else it will not fit any of the India subs.

sub launched version is same as basic ground/ship launched version it will be fired from cold launch vls cell there were plans for 25.6″ torp tube launched version of onyks but i assume that has been axed.

Sorry for late reply was busy

Pakistani government and scientists have said there will be a sub launch version. Read the previous posts here, there are articles which mention that Pakistan will have air, ground and submarine launched versions 😎

i think that statement of it being capable of being launched from air/ground/submarine is more of response to PR statement for “another” missile. As it stands not even P-3 is capable of carrying Babar unless Pakistan can procure some bombers from China air launched version is quite unlikely.

Isn’t the MTCR more of a measure to prevent export of cruise missile technology rather than one that prevents other countries from developing their own?

And doesnt the fact that the US uses Tomahawk CMs extensively with great success, even though it has every other possible weapon available, show that CM DO play an important role in conventional terms?

It is self regulatory to prevent countries from devoloping long range missiles and aid in devolopment of countries devoloping them.

As for tomahawk its sucess is mixed main weakness is its lack of penetration capability, during one instance documented in CNN news article after the 2003 war, USN fired 8 tomahawks to destroy a Saddam palace/High value target. They left minor structural damages finally USAF decided to do itself and a sent F-16 with couple LGBs.

The result was two large carters, mission accomplished. There are many discussions on how effect cruise missiles will be in a future conflict with improving ADS an jammers, to counter that next generation of CMs are moving towards stealth and speed only time will tell how effective they will be.

Production on this missile starts next month. Pakistan has been working on this for 8 years and it is very logical to believe that several tests were already carried out on this missile before this public test. So once production starts, Pakistans inventory of CMs increases.

havent seen any report that production will start this year let alone next month, i find that hard to believe that pakistan wont release that information. Also the test seems more like a early trials not deployment trials based on appearance of the launcher.

We are making a big deal, because IT IS A BIG DEAL! 😎 It adds a huge punch to Pakistans strike capabilities and will soon result in Pakistani Subs armed with nuclear weapons…. a great nuclear deterrent.

dont you think you are getting too ahead of yourself for starters missile just underwent its first test and its already ready for sub launch :rolleyes:

Now you say that cruise missiles are easy to develop, why then do majority of world armed forces not have any!? And how can you compare an Exocet or Harpoon, or whatever Sadam Hussain had to true cruise missiles!? Do you honestly think there is no difference between the CM Iraq built and the ones being built in the USA or Russia!? Or even Pakistan?

Because of mtcr same reason why not many countries dont have BMs. Also most countries are still questioning the conventional wisdom of firing them in conventional purpose. Not really discussing about it here since its OFT but go google around and read some articles on all the pessimistic views on Tlam.

As for missiles saddam fired those missiles he fired still fall under cruise missile category fyi. Also saddam did have 400 km indegnious Turbojet? cruise missile under devolopment in the late 80s which had to be scrapped to comply with UN sanctions.

And as for Air Defences, none of Pakistans neighbours (except China) have air defence capabilty which would allow them to intercept the hundreds of CM, Guided Missiles/Bombs (H2 and H-4) and Fighter Aircraft that would be attacking them.

Not just that, as the video stated this cruise missile is programmed to avoid high rish targets and if needed fly from waypoint to waypoint to go around heavily defended areas. On top of which, cruise missiles are very hard to detect anyway.

Huh? when did pakistan have capability to throw all that in one time, for starters production hasnt even started and you already talking about 100s of CMs.
As for ADS when did pakistan have the ability to detect enemy air defense and preprogram missiles to fly around them, its ELINT are minimal at the best apart from USN i doubt anyone can pull that off sucessfully. As for shooting down cruise missile doesnt take much even manpad can technically shoot them down only trouble is detecting them but most modern radar are capable of detectng very lo flying object even obsolete ADS are being upgraded to intercept Cruise missiles (Poland, Czech, Russia have all offered upg package for vintage shika,SA-2/3/6).
Thats why next generation of Cruise missile are supposed incoporate stealth or speed to get around that.

Rajan,
Thats copyrighted info there i believe the post in br was edited.

Blackcat,
Its 48 vls cells not 72 located in 4 modules of 12 vls cells similar to P-15A. Also all this info is just speculative and even if its not considering how much revisions vikramaditya has gone thru wont be suprised if further changes are made.

what do you mean spending spree? i dont recall vietnam purchasing much beside why would they want those werent they license building molniya’s?

There are 3 versions of 3S14 launcher: the original one, which is the one You are referring to – just metal beams :p, then there is 3S14K, which is the same, only boxed like a container, so it can be retrofitted into ships which were not purpose-built for this launcher, it’s heavier of course. The third version is 3S14P which I described.
Air launched Yakhont is 6,1m long, ship launched is 8m (8,9m with container). I can’t see any booster on air-launched version, anyway, whhy should it need one?

for launch from aircrafts like tu-144 and i doubt flanker can go supersonic with 3 yakhonts.

http://www.brahmos.com/missile_tech.html
” The air-launched version has a smaller booster and additional tail fins for stability during launch.”