JonSJa Worsley, you do realise that article in force is more like an editorial with some facts thrown around. Moving on
Excuse me, what about France, Italy and Spain? Argentina has plans also but as yet they have no ship.
I think they are trying to point countries that have recently built carriers with ADS’s displacement or larger than that if thats case they left out france in which case it should have been france, US and Russia. I guess they assumed that britain is already building CVF.
So the design is going to be quite small then? Imean to operate those type of a/c all at once you would have small numbers available, possibly a compliment such as this:
as i said b4 its just editorial put together with some factual statements. Most reports suggest that ADS will operate 12 Mig-29K, 8 LCA/Shar, 10 helos. Till the vessel is fully built or Mig-29Ks inducted ts hard to determine the full aviation complement. So most current of estimates of its air wing are conservative ones. Gorshkov airwing is good example while early estimates put it at 16 mig-29 and 6 ka-28/31 which is what IN ordered, current estimates put it 24 and 6 and Mig claims that even more can be fitted in if you are factor in Mig-29k fold wing design.
JonSWhat’s happening with the ADS? I heard that they have finally cut the steel, this would mean that they have settled on a design, if so what is that design and what are the expected specs of that design?
Steel cuting will take place april 11th, as for design it was finalised last year its similar to Fincantier’s Cavour which was awarded the 30 million contract.
http://www.indiadefence.com/ADS.htm
How is the Dhurv going with it’s introduction into service?
IN just inducted 10 more 4 ASW variant and 6 utility.
What is the future sea lift capabilities of the IN looking like? IIRC they have some pretty old ships in service, certainly when I was there once I saw a few (LST’s?) tied up along side in a very poor condition.
what u saw is probably first batch LST M/Polnochny which are being decomissoned, they are still 4 more left from 2nd batch but they were built in mid 80s. IN isnt putting much money on sea lift due to lack of necessity for an amphibous force however there are currently 3 LST L under construction and there plans for more ACV (not sure if its griffon or zubr ), LCUs and LST Ms.
Sorry wrong thread but Some one had claimed that the IAF has already gone for the VLS MICA , when did this thing happen and what short range SAM its replacing.
only recently did IAF even witness test firing of VL Mica so its rather unlikely so far no other media other def news has claimed IAF has agreed to procure VL mica which i find dubious. If IAF were to sign such a order, Mbda would released press releases by know.
JonSit doesnt require any FC radar all it need is data from a surv radar. Not sure what type of radar is needed i believe it can be integrated with any 3D radar ( not sure about 2D) wont be suprised if the IAF version uses CAR.
JonSMeanwhile Grifo will further improve their radar which would be installed on later batches of JF-17.
Why not Kopyo i believe on paper it is superior to S-7 (which is still very much in testing phase as well) in range and no of targets tracked.
JonSIt depends on how many targets can be detected by the radar integrated with VL Mica but it doesnt incoporate anything like Mid course guidance it has no overhead. It can intercept however many targets depending on how much missiles the system can fire, From mbda
No limitation on number of missiles simultaneously in flight
As for its speed supposed to be around mach 3+.
JonSThats right , Shtil & Mica fall in different class , But a VLS Mica dosent have a range of more than 15 KM in G2A mode but as a AAM it has a range of 60 KM.
Its max range actually is more than that because it doesnt incoporate MCG like its AAM counterpart it has to be limited to around 10+ km.
I believe Barak-2 is referred to as Barak-7 or atleast it was referred to as that in one of the docs i read. Its Active guided SAM incoporates some features even more advanced than Arrow system but doesnt have TMD capability.
JonSthe costs associated with introducing yet another missile system to the IN inventory
what do u mean IN currently is looking to only operate 3 missile systems Shtil,Barak and 9M317, so there is still room for another system perhaps. PLAN on otherhand operates far more and you can add Rif,9M317 and may be even tor to that list in the coming years.
aww love when someone replies as the same time as me
As I understand the competation for short range missile iis joing on between Spyder and VLS Mica , for the army and what you are trying to say that the airforce has already selected the VLS Mica for point defence purpose.
no u got it confused LLQRM is for IAF not for the IA, which is looking for mobile SAM so trishul is best suited for its purpose still. ‘
The VL Mica is just too short legged for the navy and If i am not mistaken for point defence task we have already chosen the VLS Barak.
it still addresses one of baraks shortcoming its inability to intercept fast moving targets and its not really point defense system as its system designed to counter saturation attacks something which barak and shtil arent so effective against. Anyway Its range of 12 km is still decent its not like shtil 24 km range is that great of an improvement.
JonSSo The FC on the Ship has to guide it till the end.
For shtil illumination is only needed during terminal phase it uses autopilot/mid course guidance similar to SM-2 but Shtil doesnt have time sharing of illuminators like the latter.
A deal has been signed with MBDA for a new Missile system for P-17 class of ships
I read that report but didnt mention what system it could very well be Mica VL which BEL is set to build for IAF in 300 million deal announced a few days backand IN and IA also have expressed intrest in it according to recent def news.
JonSIndia has plans to make a total of 12 P-17 new generations frigate and it will be built in classes of 3 , with each new class being improvement over the other.
u have any link to confirm i was under impression that it will built in batches of 3 vessels, no point in starting construction of new class if the early P-17s have yet to even hit trials so that P-17As can be tweaked based on problems encountered in P-17s.
JonSNot really sure its P-17A or just more P-17s the link was pretty vague just mentions a 2nd line of shivaliks under construction also there is another link that says 6 P-17s. So i wouldnt be suprised if it turned out to be P-17s. No word on details of the MCMV program yet.
JonSold news it actually done in coop with bel
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/ZSU-23-4.html
Note: The Indian Army has decided to upgrade it’s ZSU-23-4 air defence systems. Defence News reported that Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) and Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) were awarded a contract, worth US $104 million, to upgrade 48 Indian Army ZSU-23-4 air defence systems. The Chairman of BEL, Y Gopala Rao, stated that the trials are being conducted on two upgraded prototypes and the remaining 46 systems will be upgraded by 2005. IAI is expected to assist BEL with the system integration. Defence News reported that the upgraded systems will feature a solid-state radar and computers, electro-optical fire control systems, a new engine and overhauling of all subsystems. The upgraded systems must be able to operate despite enemy jamming, must be able to pick up targets more than 15 km away, and must function in temperatures between 35º Celsius and minus 40º Celsius. The gun must be able to shoot down targets flying up to 450 miles per hour up to 1500 meters and out to 2500 meters. The purpose of the upgrade would be to extend the life of the air defence system by 15 years.
JonSHimanshu
Yes Mcmv deal was finialised late 04.
But i am suprised u didnt about the lst thou since it was approved well back in 02, construction of those are well in there final stages first one will be commissoned this year. Also i missed 4 FACs that are under construction in GRSE, 2 will be comissoned this year and 2 more next year.
JonSHere a list of various IN vessels under construction or approved for construction
Name-Qty-Comisson dates Confirmed/Expected
P-17: 3 05-07
P-15A:3 07-09
P-16A:1 05
P-17A:3 08-??
P-28:6 08-??
OPV:9 ??
MCMV:8 08-??
FAC:4 05-06
LST:3 05-07
Gorshkov:1 08
ADS:1 12
JonSThe current US plan to sell 24 F-16 blk 52 pakistan hopes for 70(but thatshighly doubtful if pakistan can afford anymore) doesnt have same strategic implications orginal 71 F-16 A/Bs ordered by PAF had b4 they were embargoed. They were to be inducted into AF by 1995 which would have given PAF a quantitative and u can argue qualititative advantage in 4gen AC over IAF 103 F-16 A/Bs vs 80 or So M-2000 and Mig-29s. Even if Pakistan can reach agreement on this tmrw it will be atleast well into 2008 for it to start inducting first of blk 52 by that time you are taking about well over 80 MKIs, 12 M-2k-5s,44 Mirage-2000, 48 Mig-29s,16 Mig-29ks and thats not even factoring into any MRCA or LCA procurment.
JonSI like the Brahmos/Yakhont(which are similar in most ways) but imo the Klub is a much better missile. Yes the Klub has a 220km range compared to the 300km range of Brahmos, bu the Klub is MUCH smaller and lighter. Not only this, but when it comes to Anti-Ship purposes I would pick the Klub over the Brahmos any day any time. It will come low and slow for most of the flight, where the enemy ships will have very small amount of time to detect it before it’s supersonic boost stage takes over and slams into a ship at m2.5. For submarines especially, with limited amount of space, the Klub is much better. The ship/sub launched Brahmos weighs 3000kg, while the Klub something like 2200kg I think.
Yakhont just like the other russian long range SSM’s designed by NPO were made to be utlized against carrier fleets in other words fleets that have AEW/AWACS assests, lo-lo trajectory isnt so useful in that scenario so why bother? Also because of limitations of horizon probability of sucessful kills diminishes greatly at ranges less than 120 km flying lo-lo without some kinda of midcourse datalink capability (such as used by otomat, moskit even that datalink is pretty tricky to implement since its prone to jamming). Thats why NPO i believe did argue that klub isnt so useful at that long ranges and besides yakhont can be used in lo-lo profile.
For submarines especially, with limited amount of space, the Klub is much better.
Huh? what do u mean there is no plans to make tube launched brahmos only VLS launched for submarine purpose.
As for weight comparison in surface combatant purpose it doesnt matter much since Klub can only be fired via VLS cells and those same VLS cells are also capable of handling Yakhont. To add more due to limitation that it can only be VLS launched it limits the ability to fit into exsisting vessels with horizontally inclined launchers where as brahmos can be. Anyway FYI even thou brahmos does weigh more than styx by like a ton or so, 8 to 12 yakhonts can be fitted onto exsisting missile boats carrying 4 styx/termit SSMs. So its not the weight that matters its weight to length destribution.
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