JonSThe range of the modernised Shtil-1 system is between 3.5-32 km, while the altitude coverage is from 5 m up to 15 km. These limits are set not by the performance of the missile but by the capabilities of the existing shipboard illuminating radars. This suggests further growth potential if the system is upgraded or if new radars are added.
that proves what i speculated earliar that orekh limits the performance of shtil sam system.
JonSi simply hate these kind of things….. only one missile per month??….. like the BS that HAL says…. 12-14 a/c for the nest decade…i wonder what the baffoons that rule the country thinks off….. do they inted to keep jobs for these guys for the HAL or they inted to delver the a/c as earliy as possible.
This 12-14 a/c and 140 a/c over a decade is simply too hard to digest and very stupid.
orginal reports suggested that IN has requirements for 200+ missiles so yes the number seems bit off.
JonSThe Guidance of Phalanx is used on Sea RAM, this one only has a 11-round missile pack. That’s also what concerns me. Also, the range of RAM gives it a slight advantage over Phalanx, yet I don’t think it will be capable of engaging multiple targets. Maybe 2, but certainly not 4 (when these 4 are all supersonic ones). Phalanx can only take out 1 target…
But what is certain is that Russia has the advantage in this type of missiles. They have Uran and the earlier Siren as Harpoon comparatives too. They have about every type of missile against ships. Although it is said that the Harpoon drone they used (a converted KSR-5 I think it was) was seen as the hardest targets. (for Kinzhal at least)
Sea ram can fire about 1 missile every 2 to 3 secs and there is no saying how many targets it can engage because its fire and forget system. So in other words when sea ram launcher points and fire 2 to 3 missiles against 3 targets all 3 missiles might just end intercepting the first target. Thats the problem with fire forget SAM systems. Thats why Koreans are still deploying goalkeepers with their RAM even thou latter is lot cheaper.
JonSThe warhead is 300 kg for both the Brahmos-S and Brahmos-A. Surprising question.
actually no according to brahmos corp brochure Brahmos-S warhead is 200 kg and A is 300 kg.
JonSThe size of warhead seems right nothing new there why do u ask?
It is the first and only Supersonic Cruise missile, which uses the liquid Ramjet technology.
Moskit also uses kerosense fueled ramjet???
JonSThe Russians have a corvette design thats mounting an S300 VLS and TOMB STONE array so I can imagine little issue with the Chinese mounting the system on a 7000 ton 052 hull. TOMB STONE would be an easier fit than a TOP DOME on that sized hull but it would be a great deal easier to modify the superstructure of the existing 052C design than design a new hull from scratch or try and adapt a thumping great hull like a Slava then build a run of them.
thats the Rif-M which is still very much under devolopment it fields improved Tombstone (less power consumption?) and pure VLS system.
The only reason to even look at the Slava would seem, to me, to be some systemic failure of the new Area-AAW system aboard the 052C’s. I’d agree that that doesnt seem likely as, afaik, the 170 vessel has already been commissioned into the PLAN and is operational?. Hard to see why they would commission a vessel who’s primary combat system was marginal!.
169,170s were in pipeline well b4 russia opened its cooperation with PLAN. HHQ-9 on 52Cs probably have their share of drawback (inability to intercept sea skimming missiles etc), if they were so great china would fitted them on 52Bs wont they have not?
JonSWhy pay for the completion of someone elses ASuW/AAW ship when the very least of the PLANs needs are for another ASuW hull and when they have just developed and fielded their own AAW hull and, apparently, a new Area AAW weapons system to go with it.
all signs point to china moving away from its indigenous SAM systems to procuring more russian based ones. China is funding the devolopment of VLS shtil for new pair DDGs and has purchased a couple rif recently and has shown great intrest in pure VLS variant of it. So purchasing slava will help out china in design and operation of vessels fielding the RIF sam system.
JonSIf the chopper is flying three 2.5hr sorties a day how long can a modest-sized FFG support its airey-fairies?.
there is no data on talwar but i am guessing around 20+ sorties,since the russian 20380.0 corvette can provide its ka-28 with 10 2+ hr sorties.
Anyway without an aircraft carrier support any fleet in the world even if it operates aegis ddg etc can be picked apart by any modern AF equipped even with mavericks.
JonSWell, I suppose China could mount a huge battery of Supersonic Missiles of their own on it. Or C-803… Or even give it a larger AD potential by putting their bought S300F(M?) missiles on it… With an extra radar in front, this could be a good ship for fleet AD. The age and progress worries me a bit though. I saw a picture of her, yes yes I’ll look to post it here. Not so long ago and she looked quite bad…
there is complications in putting another radar apart from lack space there is also the power requirement and need to rewire onboard electronics etc. Even refitting it with sunburn will take atleast half a year if not more.
JonSGiven the strategic and tactical situation the IN is facing I wonder why there is emphasis on a long range ASuW capability.
its because the ASuW missiles all have secondary land attack capability brahmos,klub etc.
Yes there was this news of 2nd Amur being constructed for a foreign coustomer (read India ) having capabilities similar to the Lada Class , India was offered a Hump Back Amur capable of Carrying 4 Brahmos Missile ( source Naval Forces ) , But stability seems to be an Issue or call it Doubt.
like to status of its construction right know, from what i last read the shipyard was building it as private initiative and no foregin nation had expressed intrest in it. I was betting the russian navy will end up being or will be turned into test vessel of some sort.
Initial Plan was to have a Dhanush missile on the first P-15A destroyer , lets see if they still hold ture ie if they could develop all the system and subsystem in 3 years
I believe the israelis are currently also working on a naval version of LoRA.
JonSwhat is the status on the 2nd amur being built (for export)?
JonSlets just say these FACs are a very cost effective force multiplier.
*sigh why dont u just hide missiles on ur fishing trawlers whoola u have ideal delivery system. With 1000s of trawler in china most navies will run out of shells and missiles trying to sink all of them.
JonSQuestion from the novice….
Looking at that pic posted by blackcat of the 3-canister Tatra launcher, can someone please explain why the canisters themselves are so long compared to the actual Brahmos missile? What neccessity/advantage is there to such a long canister?
not exactly canister i believe is 9 meters long and the missile is supposed to be around 8 meters long.
As for bastion vs tatra based brahmos it seems DRDO version carries further onboard equipment it could be that this version doesnt have central command & radar station like bastion for each battery. But instead each launcher can process information from exsisting radar networks or Ka-31.
JonSNice photos of the Rajput with the Brahmos. Can I ask a simple question? Does the Bramhos make use of the existing FCRs and radars for targetting? Or is there any specific radars needed (during the test)?
yeap yakhont can pretty much be fitted onto vessel that is capable of carrying SS-N-2 and it can use the exsisting onboard FCR.
o-one, in the era of CNN warfare, is likely to shoot a 300km active-radar homer into an area where the seeker may inadvertently lockup a neutral merchant, or worse, without a clear idea of what they were shooting at – hopefully!. Making that process more difficult for the missile shooter is likely to forestall his missile release until he can seperate the wolf from the sheep and, if the surface commander is smart, he can make life very exciting for the platform trying for the positive ID.
its onboard computer system is capable of identifying the target and id it from its database so there is little chance that it will lock onto merchant vessel, thats one of the reason yakhont was ran into diffculties, because russians had problems devoloping a small computer system for it.
JonSAs to the issue of subsonic warhead damage look at the bows photo of the USS Stark again. That hole in the superstructure and the heavy list to port was nothing to do with a fire – that is damage from the impact!. That damage is sufficient to send the ship back to port. If the prevailing conditions are kind it might even make it!. Even if the ship does make it back to be repaired its out of action for duration of most modern conflicts. I ask you again how much damage do you think you need to do to a ship?.
I have seen videos & pictures of USN destroyers in far worse condition after japanese attacks remain operational and be active in the battle front. As the info i posted points it out it was the fire that made ship unoperational not the damage unless u have some other source that says otherwise.
Hopefully Garry, Harry or Vympel will jump in on this one but it was my understanding that the Brahmos missile is an ‘Indianised’ version of the Yakhont missile. Yakhont being fully developed previously by the Russians and accepted into service, by them, in its original configuration?.
From what i understand of yakhont from the few russian documents i have read it was supposed to be mini shipwreck “Universal missile” devolopment started around early 70s and was spearhead by the founder of NPO (forgot his name), the missile ran into a lot of technical diffculties and hence the russians decided to purchase the moskit as stop gap measure till yakhont is devoloped. Because of moskit incompatability with earliar systems rit could never really be their universal ashm and russian navy wasnt too enthuasiatic bout the SS-N-25 so they decided not to upgrade earliar vessels with those missiles and instead wait it out till Onyks/Yakhont is devoloped.
Even thou yakhont booster,seeker were all devoloped and tested by 93 the russians were encountering problems trying to devolop onboard computer system for it and were running out of funding. Around 95 talk was under way with india for potential joint devolopment and 97 all the paper works were signed. Since then it has taken bout 6 years to fine tune the onboard computer system and also a land attack capability was added on to it (using RF might be only for indian or non export version). Its intresting to the note the orginal yakhont is still up for export.
Russia has’nt mentioned anything about standardisation, submarine, shore and aircraft deployments but confirmed deployment of the Brahmos on surface warships. Brahmos is officially, a joint venture between NPOM and DRDO, with the HQ at New Delhi.
Russians i believe have plans for few land based batteries of Onyk its called bastion have some photos of that.
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