The NYT reports…
:rolleyes:
Mulally said Boeing is seeing “continued interest” in the 767 from airlines that want to buy more as a replacement for older planes, for growth and as a bridge to the 787, which is scheduled to enter service in mid-2008.
He did not say how soon Boeing might announce additional 767 orders.
Anybody care to venture a guess on who and when?
Rivals boxing clever in Paris war of words
Flight International
13-June-05
If you thought the much publicised spats between the heavyweights of Airbus and Boeing were the best entertainment at air shows in recent years then, as they say, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Now entering the ring are Embraer and Bombardier – because what began as a middleweight support bout is now shaping up to be a gloves-off, bare-fist scrap of world championship proportions.
In the red corner is the flamboyant fast-footed contender from Brazil; in the blue corner the ultra-conservative solid puncher from Canada.
After a few preliminary rounds at recent shows in the business aviation world, they are preparing to get at each other’s throats as the bell rings to start Le Bourget.
Both Embraer and Bombardier have been making moves into each other’s territories. Embraer has announced its light jet (LJ) and very light jet (VLJ) that will compete with Bombardier’s Learjet offering. Meanwhile Bombardier has announced a clearly defined offer of corporate shuttle jets that will go head to head with Embraer’s corporate division that offers shuttle versions of the Brazilian’s regional jets.
Communication staff from the companies have been muttering off the record about the other’s weaknesses and positively snapping at each other in public as the war of words has fallen back on the old, well-tested punchbag of unfair subsidies.
Reports have been appearing in various newspapers quoting Canadian sources who claim that the Brazilian company would use military contracts as a means to obtain government funding.
Embraer is not taking this lying down. “We vehemently refute this,” a spokesman says. “The facts show the accusations are unfounded.”
He says defence sales to the Brazilian air force make up just 4% of total revenues.
Firmly warmed up, the Embraer spokesman goes on the attack. “Another ludicrous statement refers to Embraer’s ‘fear of competition’. Contrary to statements attributed to a Bombardier spokesperson, there is no fear of competition on the part of Embraer. There is fear when this competition is supported by unfair trade practices.
“Why doesn’t Bombardier abide by the rules like Embraer? The total development cost of the successful Embraer 170/190 family was about $1 billion without any government support.
“Apart from being devoid of any base, these statements in question constitute a vain attempt to mislead public opinion.”
Jabbing furiously and pushing towards the ropes the spokesman goes for the knock out punch. “As Bombardier resorts to this sort of action, the Canadian company tries to justify the unjustifiable – the utilisation of government subsidies to compete against its technically superior rivals, distorting, in a condemnable fashion, international trade rules and principles established on a fair and mutually acceptable basis and, acting in such a way, hampering the economic and social development of the nations affected.”
In the blue corner, the Canadian brawler is spitting in the bucket, tightening the gloves, hitching up the shorts and punching the air.
Ding, ding! Seconds out, Round 2
…[related news, which is no longer speculation]…
Requirement for personnel recovery vehicle could be split
Flight International
7-Dec-2004
The US Air Force may seek to buy two vastly different aircraft types under one contract when a solicitation for its next-generation personnel recovery vehicle (PRV) is issued next month. The programme seeks to buy 132 aircraft to replace an ageing fleet of 104 Sikorsky HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters by 2011, but perhaps as early as 2009.
The air force had previously proposed splitting the order evenly between a current conventional aircraft and a more advanced vertical-lift aircraft that can achieve a cruising speed of 300kt (555km/h). However, the service is now contemplating buying both types together as the PRV and the newly-named Common Vertical Lift Support Platform (CVLSP). “The potential exists for the inclusion of the CVLSP into the PRV programme planning, source selection and resultant contract award,” says a request for information posted on 29 November. The notice adds that the CVLSP requirements are still in development, but will be published “as soon as possible”.
The CVLSP’s known requirement to achieve 225-300kt cruise speeds points to a tiltrotor aircraft, such as the Air Force Special Operations Command Bell Boeing CV-22 Osprey, or a new rotorcraft design, such as Sikorsky’s Reverse Velocity Rotor or Boeing’s X-50 Dragonfly Canard Rotor/Wing.
Industry observers are wary of a potential dual acquisition strategy, citing a similar attempt in the late 1990s by the US Army to combine the Boeing CH-47F Chinook upgrade and CH-47X advanced helicopter contracts under the same order – a strategy foiled by the Office of the Secretary of Defense.
Bell Updates H-1 Helicopter Program
(Source: Bell Helicopter; issued June 13, 2005)
PARIS AIR SHOW — The H-1 Program is a major upgrade to the US Marine Corps fleet of AH-1W SuperCobra and UH-1N utility helicopters to an advanced configuration featuring common engines, avionics and drive train components.
The program involves 100 UH-1N and 180 AH-1W SuperCobra helicopters.
Upon completion, the AH-1W will become the AH-1Z and the UH-1N will become the UH-1Y. The AH-1Z will be manufactured from existing AH-1W aircraft while the UH-1Y will be a new-build aircraft with the exception of the first dozen aircraft which will be remanufactured from existing UH-1N helicopters.
Currently, the H-1 EMD program is about 95 percent complete with 3,000 hours of flight test on five aircraft (three AH-1Z and two UH-1Y). Operations Evaluation (OPEVAL) is planned for later this year. Bell completed the turned exhaust installation on all five test aircraft and the company is now installing it on AH-1W aircraft already in the fleet. Testing demonstrated dramatic temperature reductions on the tailboom with no degradation in handling qualities or performance.
The Bell H-1 program is now in production on assembly lines located at Bell’s 184-acre manufacturing facility located in Amarillo, Texas. The jigs and tooling are in place and the first two production AH-1Z/UH-1Y aircraft have started down the production line.
Bell began to remanufacture six UH-1N and three AH-1W helicopters to the UH-1Y and AH-1Z standard during FY04. A second LRIP (Low Rate Initial Production) lot, currently scheduled to be another six Hueys and three SuperCobras, should enter production before the end of this year.
The H-1 includes 84 percent commonality between the two aircraft including engines (GE-T700 engines), four blade all composite, hingeless, bearingless main rotor system and tail rotor, identical drive trains, hydraulics Integrated Avionics System, helmets and the electrical distribution systems. By utilizing common systems, Life Cycle Costs for the two helicopters will be dramatically reduced and will allow for vastly improved shipboard operability. Far less critical shipboard space will be needed to store spare parts and support equipment for deployed Marines operating these new aircraft.
The H-1 Program will result in 280 new aircraft for the US Marine Corps to operate beyond 2025. The AH-1Z fleet will be “zero-time” airframes remanufactured with the latest technology, while the UH-1Y fleet will be new-build aircraft. The H-1 Upgrade Program increases the speed, range, maneuverability, firepower and lift capability of both aircraft. The savings in maintenance staffing and training, ground handling and support equipment, and spare parts inventories equates to billions of dollars over the life of the program.
Current advanced technology will provide the H-1 Fleet with increased battlefield survivability and greater mission success with fewer combat losses. In addition, the crashworthiness of both the UH-1Y and the AH-1Z will be improved over current aircraft. First flight of the AH-1Z occurred in December 2000, with the UH-1Y first flight in 2001. There are three AH-1Z and two UH-1Y aircraft in flight-testing at NAS Patuxent River, MD.
You are right about the H-6 steve.USagent;that photo shows an AH-6. The armed version of the special operations MH-6.
If you notice, bring_it_on requested a photo of the Little Bird…he didn’t specify which model.
:p
Chinook could be PRV candidate
Flight International
31 May 2005
Boeing has presented the CH-47 Chinook to the US Air Force as a candidate for the Personnel Recovery Vehicle (PRV) programme, injecting a heavylift vehicle into a competition previously divided between two medium-lift helicopters and a tiltrotor.
The move also could stoke internal rivalry with Bell Helicopter, Boeing’s partner on the V-22 Osprey programme. The Bell Boeing joint venture intends to offer the CV-22 tiltrotor in the PRV competition, which also includes Sikorsky’s S-92 and the Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland/Bell US101.
Boeing met the USAF’s PRV programme office in late April to brief it on the capabilities of the CH-47 as a potential combat search-and-rescue platform, says Lt Col Pat Bolibrzuch, PRV programme manager, who adds that the Chinook is a competitive product. “When you look at the four candidates, each of them actually has some area that’s better than the next guy.”
Boeing has not officially committed to join the programme, and although Bolibrzuch says he considers the Chinook a candidate, this will be confirmed only if Boeing submits a bid when the competitive phase begins. This is expected to start in July, but the schedule could be delayed by a growing bottleneck in approvals for USAF acquisition programmes.
The USAF is looking to replace about 103 Sikorsky HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters through the PRV project, which has grown from 132 to 141 aircraft. A follow-on order for 60 more aircraft to patrol the air force’s widely dispersed missile launch sites is also anticipated.
The original PRV acquisition strategy called for a split order, with half of the fleet to be a conventional aircraft and the rest a new airframe offering radical improvements in speed and lift. Now, the USAF plans to buy one aircraft type in two configurations.
…[related]…
Boeing 767 Everett line likely safe for this year
Mulally also says they’ll probably develop bigger 747
By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER
Tuesday, June 14, 2005
LE BOURGET, France — The Boeing Co. is seeing enough interest from airlines in the 767 that it probably will not need to decide this year on ending production of the plane, Alan Mulally, chief executive of Boeing’s jetliner business, disclosed yesterday.
“Right now, we don’t anticipate having to make that decision this year,” Mulally said in an interview at the Paris Air Show.
Boeing had been expected to make an announcement on the fate of the 767 by mid- to late summer.
Just a few months ago, that plane, as well as the 747, looked to be on the endangered list. Both are built in Everett, along with the 777.
But Boeing is likely to go ahead with development of a bigger 747, though no decision has been made. Mulally said there is growing interest from airlines in both the freighter and passenger versions of the 747 Advanced. The passenger plane would have about 30 more seats than the current 747-400
Boeing has another 24 747-400s left to build, and Mulally hinted at additional 747-400 orders that would allow for continued production until the new model comes along, probably in 2008 or 2009. The 747 Advanced would be a stretch of the existing 747-400, with the engines being developed by General Electric for the 787.
Boeing Chairman Lewis Platt had said at the air show this past weekend that the board would discuss the 747 Advanced at its next meeting at the end of the month, though it is not clear when the board might actually give the OK to launch development of the plane.
So far this year, five previous 747-400 orders have been canceled, but Boeing has won two additional orders, for a net loss of three planes.
It’s a similar story for the 767. Customers have canceled four previous 767 orders this year, and Boeing has won three new orders, for a net loss of one 767. Boeing had 20 767s left to build at the end of May.
Mulally said Boeing is seeing “continued interest” in the 767 from airlines that want to buy more as a replacement for older planes, for growth and as a bridge to the 787, which is scheduled to enter service in mid-2008.
He did not say how soon Boeing might announce additional 767 orders.
Eventually, the 787 will replace the 767.
But delaying a decision on ending production of the 767 buys Boeing more time while the Pentagon considers what to do about tankers for the Air Force.
Boeing had a $23 billion deal with the Air Force to build 100 767 tankers, but it was killed by Congress last year as a result of a military procurement scandal at Boeing. A decision by the Pentagon on how to proceed isn’t likely until later this year.
I am…I was just busting chops on my original post.
With all this talk lately of “price cutting” and “subsidizing” it was a feeble attempt at sarcasm.
I’m sure by the end of the week Boeing will have won its share of orders due to what the customer will term as ‘slightly more advantageous commercial terms’.
🙂
No…that legislation will be up to the EU to implement.
I actually should have specified that the proposed US legislation is directed at foreign companies.
Ah, ‘trade wars’…aren’t they wonderful. :rolleyes:
As far as the 787-vs.-A350 competition, Al Baker said it was a “hard choice.”
“In the end, the existence of the Airbus A330 in Qatar Airways’ current fleet and slightly more advantageous commercial terms, led us to believe that the A350 would be the optimum choice,” Al Baker said.
Sounds like they got more than a few free t-shirts. 😉
FYI, plans on the 747ADV are mentioned in an article I posted in the ‘767 Production’ thread:
Mulally also says they’ll probably develop bigger 747
Boeing 767 Everett line likely safe for this year
Mulally also says they’ll probably develop bigger 747
By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER
Tuesday, June 14, 2005
LE BOURGET, France — The Boeing Co. is seeing enough interest from airlines in the 767 that it probably will not need to decide this year on ending production of the plane, Alan Mulally, chief executive of Boeing’s jetliner business, disclosed yesterday.
“Right now, we don’t anticipate having to make that decision this year,” Mulally said in an interview at the Paris Air Show.
Boeing had been expected to make an announcement on the fate of the 767 by mid- to late summer.
Just a few months ago, that plane, as well as the 747, looked to be on the endangered list. Both are built in Everett, along with the 777.
But Boeing is likely to go ahead with development of a bigger 747, though no decision has been made. Mulally said there is growing interest from airlines in both the freighter and passenger versions of the 747 Advanced. The passenger plane would have about 30 more seats than the current 747-400
Boeing has another 24 747-400s left to build, and Mulally hinted at additional 747-400 orders that would allow for continued production until the new model comes along, probably in 2008 or 2009. The 747 Advanced would be a stretch of the existing 747-400, with the engines being developed by General Electric for the 787.
Boeing Chairman Lewis Platt had said at the air show this past weekend that the board would discuss the 747 Advanced at its next meeting at the end of the month, though it is not clear when the board might actually give the OK to launch development of the plane.
So far this year, five previous 747-400 orders have been canceled, but Boeing has won two additional orders, for a net loss of three planes.
It’s a similar story for the 767. Customers have canceled four previous 767 orders this year, and Boeing has won three new orders, for a net loss of one 767. Boeing had 20 767s left to build at the end of May.
Mulally said Boeing is seeing “continued interest” in the 767 from airlines that want to buy more as a replacement for older planes, for growth and as a bridge to the 787, which is scheduled to enter service in mid-2008.
He did not say how soon Boeing might announce additional 767 orders.
Eventually, the 787 will replace the 767.
But delaying a decision on ending production of the 767 buys Boeing more time while the Pentagon considers what to do about tankers for the Air Force.
Boeing had a $23 billion deal with the Air Force to build 100 767 tankers, but it was killed by Congress last year as a result of a military procurement scandal at Boeing. A decision by the Pentagon on how to proceed isn’t likely until later this year.
Remember, there is legislation being proposed in the U.S. senate to bar any company from doing business with the DoD if that company in any way receives what is currently defined as ‘direct government subsidies’ or is involved in pending litigation at the WTO under complaint of receiving ‘direct government subsidies’.
Perhaps BAE sees the writing on the wall and is taking pre-emptive action to safegaurd what has become a very lucrative flow of income from U.S. military contracts by divesting from Airbus?
i dont think so, according to current Indian CAP no airline can fly international without a domestic experience of around 6-7 years.
Excellent point.
Do they mention when the A380s are planned to begin operations?