W.E.E. Flight RCAF Tempest VN999 crash

Fellas this was a Mk V tempest that was flying south of Calgary with Blackey Williams when it got caught in a snow storm and wiped out. The a/c was written off and I believe one of the WEE guys told me she was locally scrapped.

Here is a file in the National Archives:

Reference: RG24 ,National Defence, Series E-1-b, Volume 4976
File: 620-38ER, Access code: 90
File Title: Tempest Aircraft – Technical Aspects.
Outside Dates: 1945-1947
Finding Aid number: 24-100

There is a WEE report on the testing of this Tempest while in Canada but have never been able to find in the archives.

As well I am sure the RCAF would have conducted a Investigation on the crash but not sure what the FILE number is or what Microfilm the Investigation Report is on. Don’t have access to the findings aid.

Larry Milberry has a photo of it in 60 Years

Lee
http://www.CAHS.com (toronto)

The story is actutally true. Interviewed many of the 125 Sqd pilots from Torbay including Lal Parsons who flew Miss Torbay ER824 after the Maint Section (Bert Russell) rebuilt her from the other 2 Spitfire wrecks. The station was apparently called down to the docks to inspect what was left of the aircraft on the Empire Kingsley in St. Johns harbor. They picked off 3 aircraft, rebuilt one, the other 2 were buired by Leo Flaherty next to the hangers. Not sure what would still be there but no tin hats, only shovels….Have a copy of Leo’s letter that simpulates the disposal, sadly no location…..

seeking his address as well. Anyone helphttp://aerosociety.com/Events/Event-List/1517/Farnborough-1945-Farewell…?

more info

Michael,

I know that the pilot (name?) bailed out of 5631 and it crashed 2 miles east of St. Fulgence while flying with No. 1 OTU. Cannot find the name of the pilot.

If you want the crash report here is the file that can be copied by the Nat Archives of Canada:

Record Group 24, National Defence, Series E-1-b, Microfilm Reel C-5932
File: 1100-56-31

Finding photos of these aircraft is nearly impossible due to the large number of aircraft at the school, cameras were really not permitted to photograph aircraft and what photos the DND does have in Ottawa are locked away in the Nat Archives for now until they are proper indexed.

I have been searching for years for a photo of Hurricane 5624 while with No. 1 OTU and before it went missing in May 1943.

Updates from Canada…..

This just aired on the CBC today. Sadly haven’t watched it yet as my workstation will not run the flash player needed. No IP filtering on this CBC so everyone should be able to watch this.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/World/1239665833/ID=2234239198

Updates

Mark,

I can add to my earlier post on Sheppard’s published accounts of the incident involving F/Sgt Copping and this P40.

I do agree it is too early to jump to conclusions but after seeing the GPS location and were the LG is in relation I am pretty sure it is him.

I can add…

1) Copping was flying this aircraft the night before and nearly put the landing gear through the wings on landing. Landing into the sun and late evening he may have had problems seeing the strip and nearly crashed this a/c. Hence the locked to u/c the next day.

2) Copping left the next day without Sheppard and headed south of the LG with his gear locked down as the AMEs had done so in order to fly the a/c. I recall Sheppard leaving 30 mins later and caught up to Copping. He flew along side him on both the starboard and port sides trying to contact via R/T and hand signals, the flew in front and dropped his gear. Copping didn’t follow Sheppard to the east and continued flying in a S/SW direction. Hence the aircraft being were it is, nearly due south of the LG.

The published events don’t and may never reveal what really happened and they may not even appear in his RAF records. Remember Hanbury was killed a while after this accident over the English Channel. Only his surviving family have access to these accounts (if they appear) and are held in the AHB.

with respects to the Form 1180s that Andy eluded to. I have attached a copy of Spitfire X4492 that crashed in the UK during photo ops. Just and example but they do include the engine type and serial number. BUT remember these engines only had a lifespan of 40hrs and were ofter swapped and never recorded on the RAF Movement Cards, but in the a/c logs that I guess were not found on board? It is also unclear it this P40’s crash card included the engine included at the factory or any others that might have been swapped in. Let us hope these engine serials help up ID this aircraft if the factory plates don’t

Happy to hear this hit the papers and that a search and recovery is going to happen. I am haunted by those photos of that chute however. I recall being told that if these guys went down in the desert or anywhere else YOU stay with your a/c.

Anyone have access to the RSU logs to see if a search or mention of the crash?

more later….

Lee

Some published details on the events of June 28, 1942

Flight Sergeant W.L. ‘Shep’ Sheppard’s accounts: Some of our Victories

Chapter: Ops At Last, with 260

On 28th June, 1942 Flight Sergeant Copping and myself were detailed to take the two aircraft that had been shot up to the RSU at LG100, back on the Cairo-Alexandria road, and to collect two replacement aircraft. We were to fly the replacement aircraft to the squadron’s rear landing ground at LG085, before returning to the operational landing ground at LG09.

The aircraft I was flying had been badly damaged in the wings, having been shot up in a fight with the Hun that morning. The holes on the leading edge of the wings were now filled with sandbags and pasted over with canvas to give the aircraft some stability. Copping’s aircraft had something or other wrong with it that could not be repaired on the Squadron, including the fact that the undercarriage could not be retracted, so off we went in the early afternoon. The flight was expected to be 30-40 minutes at the very most.

Copping was flight leader, having been the squadron very much longer than me, with me flying on the right wing. We had been in the air for about 20 minutes after taking off on a south westerly heading, and as Copping had made no attempt to turn eastwards, we were still heading south-west. I assumed he would though south after take off to avoid enemy aircraft or flying over enemy positions, because neither of us could use the guns, but having checked the course several times, I began to get worried. I broke radio silence but received no reply so I closed in on him and tried endeavored to signal the easterly direction. I tried all ways to get him to change course, signaling straight ahead and washing it out, pointed at the compass then the sun and my watch, but he did no budge. We must have been 30-35 minutes out and should be at the RSU, so surely he would realize we were off course but, no, he kept on with the original heading. At that point I had to make a decision. I was right and he was wrong, so I flew in close to him, waggled my wings and pointed eastwards. I turned under him and flew away, hoping he would follow. I returned and tried to attract his attention again, but he would not budge so I turned eastwards again on my own. I checked my compass by the sun and also set the gyro compass and held the course for some 30 to 35 minutes, but all I had seen up to then was sand, more sand and desert, and even more sand and desert. My courage was beginning to fail me a bit then, but I reasoned that by flying with the sun on my right and behind me, I had to be flying eastwards, and so I reset my course to the north east knowing that sooner of later I must come to the coast. One hoped sooner rather then later. Then I saw, to the south and away on my right, the Quattara Depression, and knew that I had done the right thing in breaking away and using my own judgment….

…Whilst writing this, I have remembered that reason I was able to fly away from Copping and then catch him up on the return was because of the fault on the undercarriage of his aircraft and he was flying with the undercarriage locked down.

I adjusted my course to the north and, shortly afterwards, saw the River Nile. I made another adjustment of course to that I hoped would be LG100/53 RSU. In actual fact, I hit the road taken 1hr and 50mins for the half hour trip! The first question asked was why there was only one aircraft when two should have arrived and hour ago.

I explained exactly what had happened and it was suggested that I wait and see if Copping turned up. I went for tea in the ops tent and met the doctor who, strange to relate, was from my home town. After and hour, it was decided that Copping was not going to show and must have used all his fuel, pranged somewhere in the desert. I was instructed to collect the new aircraft and fly to LG85, reporting to Base CO for further orders.

Arriving there, I found the Base CO was F/L Wilmot who had been my Flight Commander on joining the squadron. Once again, I had to go through exactly what happened and he thought it hilarious, saying Copping would enjoy that walk back. It was too late to fly up to the operation LG that night and there was always a spare tent and bed, so being keen and enthusiastic, I expected to rush off first thing next morning. However, later in the evening we received instructions to prepare for the reception of all the Squadron. We really were in retreat, and Copping was temporarily forgotten.

More later…

Note: this is what has been published about F/Sgt. Dennis Copping and his aircraft. The story is somewhat correct…

Lee

update…

Gents,

Myself and another researcher here in Canada can nearly confirm that this is F/Sgt. Dennis C. Copping’s (RAFVR) aircraft with the the airframe serial no. unknown as of yet. It did crash with in a “wheels down” landing as the gear was locked down. We can’t disclose the events on that day or any other information until RAF/MOD or the RAFM release information from there investigation with respects to the pilot’s demise and accident that resulted in this No. 260 Kittyhawk being where it is.

Perhaps someone with access to No. 260’s ORB can review the entries for June 1942 and help ID the serial number of the airframe.

Just wanted to clear the air a bit.

L.W.
CAHS – Toronto